chilli13 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 "About 1st hand account, I believe the guys here when they post something their thai other half said, as happened many times for years. I am not rebutting what she said, just saying it's one bell sound. A lot of thais marry without sinsod. I know a few. Am I lying?" I've got no idea of the reliability of your data, but I tend to like the viewpoint from thais living in thailand over other tales being objective or not. What we have established no doubt so far is that the sin sod issue is still very commonly applied to marriages in thai-thai & thai-farang, but as always huge variations on case by case basis & it may be a deal breaker even considering the ha-sip ha-sip thai-western compromise. Advice to the groom include discussing the whole financial expectations of the mariage upfront with the GF & negotiating a 'fair' compromise, which more often than not would involve future support of the extended family as thats simply is how their social network works. Parents bring up their kids & in return the grown kids support the parents as soon & as long they can. Don't like the smell in the kitchen? Go dine somewhere else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai3 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 It's all very well people saying negotiate, dont pay the asked price etc, but the problem is the lack of knowledge. If a girl tells you in her class/region/status that an amount of say 300.000 would be expected how are you to know if that's so or not. If she says it's the done thing around her area for the folks to pocket the lot who are you to know otherwise, you either believe her or not.If you were a thai you could judge these things.As we have seen there are so many variables you often don't have much to go on in deciding what you should be happy with,and that's any amount where you are not being treated differently due to not being thai. In my case I am asking for half of the amount back where she says it's not the done thing and no support for family is expected. If I don't get a compromise on some things I will walk as no compromise on her part would be too bad an indicator for the future-peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 we never can really know whats the exact averaged out 'going rate' of a wife in each & every region of LOS & neither can the thais themselves. We can try to gauge however by reflecting in other amounts paid or supposedly paid as told, read, heard etc. & not least by shooting a bit high & low to see what kind of response comes back from the GF. obviously were talking sensitive stuff here with the one you love & who really want to potentially insult her with a suggestion of a 'low price', but then again it should be a comprimise & eventually she'll realise bride prices are not the norm in farangland! Thus I don't believe it'd ever come to a go/no go situation if otherwise the match is fairly close. Hopefully a reasonable compromise for both is reached & I'd say a very good end result is to get refunded part or all of the sin sod, whereby the 'face value' matter less for him & potentially makes all more happy than simply a rock buttom price for keepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Being able to continue now with my observations: >>>>Sin sot is *hugely* important. But what I mean in terms of importance.........is not nessassarily in baht amount. And that is a *very* important point to understand from the beginning. It's a part of their culture, that *WILL* have to be addressed, to the entire community, that makes up their entire world there. And there is absolutely no escape for them, from that. In some sense, her parents are defined as to what their beloved daughter can accomplish through their hard work, and committment. And I mean defined, within their own Thai community. <<<< It is, in essence, representitive of your desire and commitment to be with their daughter. And is based on your means. For a rich man to offer little, is a great insult. For a poor man to offer everything he has, is a great thing. I'm not addressing what the final figure will end up being. Only the public stated amount. Because it is so important in Thai culture, the Grooms 'status' will be widely known by all. The whole community will know how many cars he has, if he owns a house/land, who his parents are, his schooling, past girlfriends, and what time he takes a shit in the morning. The Thai people are insane gossips. There will be endless local disscussions about how much groom earns, and what his likely future will be. If unsure, fortune tellers will be consulted to confirm beliefs, and solidify postures. You don't just take a Thai girl to the 'Little White Chapel' in Los Vegas, to get married over the weekend, on a whim. Marriage is so much more of a serious business there (Thailand). It's not a matter of a man and a woman joining in wholly matrimony. It'a a matter of a man and an entire freaking family joining in wholly matrimony. In Thailand, you don't just marry a girl....you marry her whole family. And I don't mean that in a negitive way. It's just the way many feel. And I've come to understand this. In the West, you marry a girl, she leaves the nest, and you make a life for each other. Not so in thailand. The girl *never* leaves the nest. You are just incorporated into it, when joined with her. A very important distinction that many Westerner's fail to understand, and I think is a major basis of failed Thai/farang relationships. And again, I'm just speaking from my own personal view, based on my singular ongoing experience. Over the last several years, my gf has attended numerous Thai weddings (maybe 10, that I know of?). Sin sot was a part of every single one. I also know of many relationships of her friends there, including several Thai/farang relationships. I know of 2, that dissolved, due to farang unwilling to understand the concept of sin sot. Why? Because in the end, sin sot is an expression. It's an expression of commitment, and love. No matter how silly the concept may seem to a non-Thai, it is a very real, and serious thing to them. And believe it, or not.....it's not about the money in most cases. It's about 'face', and customs. Traditionaly, negotiations will transpire between go-betweens. Grooms auntie, and Brides grandmother, for example. This is a very important thing, as both families have the first opportunity to interact with each other. And both know much can be learned from this. Is grooms family (an exstention of him) jai dee? Or not? It can become a very complicated dance, with much long reaching importances attached What happened to original couple wanting to get married, at this point? That can well be decided by factors other than their love of each other, in exstreme cases. But is not only just family. Can very well be girl herself. It's not the actual exchange of baht that matters. It's the willingness to do so, that matters. My gf has many friends, and I hear it all. Sin sot is a state of mind, to a certain degree. I know of several relationships where farang dismissed out-of-hand the sin sot concept. In a Thai girl's mind, the acceptance of the sin sot concept from a Westerner = someone she can love. Is proof, that he can love her, even though she is well aware is strange to their own culture. Accepting it, means you can accept her. And thus, accept her family as well. The actual baht amount is incedental, to a certain exstent. At least from what I've come to understand, through hearing many real life situations there. Sorry....gotta go again :: HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Yes I guess you may be excuzed - as long as you go on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Good to hear the baht amount is incidental, see you for a loan later HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Yes, I married my wife in a village ceremony. She's Khmer (as is the whole village). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 In Thailand, you don't just marry a girl....you marry her whole family --------------------------- just picking one bit from your post. Sorry, HT, but you got sucked in, and giving in completely, as well by pretexting or believing this is the way, the culture, and whatnot. Every family can have a different arrangement, and not evry son or daughter take care of the parents, once married. Not sure where it's at now, in 2005, but traditionally, it was the youngest daughter who had the foremost responsibility to care for the parents as she would inherit the home. But you are farang, and if they get you, or you get yourself, by some insane rationalazing, into the idea that you marry the family and feel as such, that you owe them something by the simple fact of "thai culture", I actually think it is just you accepting it is so, not, sorry to repeat, "thai culture". It is simply not as rigid as what you imply, and since it is about money, it is better dealt with by a farang as an arrangement, not "oh well, that's their culture" thingo. I may seem like one, but I am not a "know it all", I just know of many thai families, and I can say that in some cases, not every son married, not every daughter is helping. But if the farang can be led into thinking because he has the most income, he must be the new caretaker of the family, that must sound pretty sweet to them. Don't fool yourself, there are a lot of farangs who did what they have to do to pay respect to the family, sinsod for example, but who do not send money and do not undertake being a regular caretaker of that family. And to say that then, they lost the respect or their face to the family is pure "thai culture" generalization . Thais will respect you more, like anyone for being clear and firm in what can(and cannot) be expected from you, than being the son in law who answers every call for bahts. Moreover, Face is not respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai3 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 That's a great post HT, very interesting and sums it up well. Are you sure you're not thai -peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Are you sure you're not thai ---------------------------------- Well, thanks to such delusion, farangs in search of love are assured to be forever welcome to Thailand. I really miss FlyW today ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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