Should I tell her I want to butterfly?

[Old Hippie]

Monkey,

 

Yes, absolutely tell your GF that you were cheating on her, women appreciate honesty. I was always honest with all my ex-wives and GFs...Thai women especially are known for their understanding in these matters! Welcome to the board!

[Central Scrutinizer]

Monkey, Don't listen to OH. He's a sarcastic troublemaker with a death wish and an obsession for a lady from Si Saket who trains in Muay Thai so he can beat off (pun intended) ladyboys that chase him daily down Sukhumvit! ::

 

Cent

[monkey39]

Cent said:

Monkey,

 

There really should be no problem here if, as you say, you and Joy are just friends. If no promises have been made, no "I want to see only you" stated on either side, no love declared, why should she care if you want to butterfly around? I don't see any problem here. You haven't even had sex with her, and does she work in a bar going with customers? You need not lie to her, but conversely you need not tell her anything either. You are under no obligations here to inform her of your plans except that you'd like to spend a few days with her at some point in your holiday if you want to. Best thing to do is make no promises on that one either, plans change easily when in the LOS. You meet others you want to spend time with instead, you decide to go off to Pattaya and end up liking it and would rather stay there than Bangkok your last week, etc., etc. Be flexible and make no promises. If you do end up seeing Joy and hanging with her for a week ... fine. If not, as long as you made no promises ... that's fine also. Don't lock yourself into promising things you may end up regretting later when you change your mind. It's your holiday and it is up to you what you want to do, when you want to do it, and with whom you want to do it with.

 

By the way, where is it this Joy works? Nana? Then hang in Cowboy a few nights instead. Jai dee-ness works everywhere. Don't forget Eden Club as well, and the massage parlors, and Patpong, and the fact you can get to Pattaya in less than 2 hours for a couple days either by bus from Ekami depot for cheap baht, or grab a taxi meter down there for around 800 to 1,000 baht, one way. Easy. If you haven't been to Pattaya yet I suggest Walking Street and the soi 8 area off beach road. Ask around, there are other places to see and experience as well, with plenty of willing ladies.

 

There should be no hard feelings if you are just "friends" with this lady. Explore and have fun, and protect yourself.

 

Cent

 

p.s. Why did you pay for your hotel in advance anyway? And do not forget to use the short time hotels if you have problems getting women into your already booked hotel, or as a good way for them not to know where you are actually staying. Protect yourself, some of the lasses can become a pain in the ass just because you are considered jai dee.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Cent! I've been "lurking" on the board for a couple weeks, and have been reading your posts, as well as others, so I appreciate your comments.

 

Let me just say that I've NEVER made any indications that I want anything from Joy beyond friendship; the most I've said in emails is that I enjoyed meeting her when I was in BKK, that I've thought about her a few times since, and that I hope to see her again on my next trip...I haven't even told her that I want to BF her - thought I'd wait until I got there and saw the lay of the land. No promises made on my side about anything, either; a few things became pretty clear to me thru a bit of research I did before going to BKK the first time on what BGs look for in "jai dee" men, so I made a few "Do's and Don'ts" rules for myself before I went:

 

1) Don't lie. Not necessary, and I have a guilty conscience about that sort of thing anyway.

 

2) Don't make promises I'm not prepared to keep. It's my impression that most BGs have men make promises and let them down constantly, so if you make a promise, keep it. It distinguishes you from the others.

 

3) Do treat them with respect. I sometimes have an overly romantic view of women, which sometimes clouds my judgement; although it doesn't stop me from seeing the reality of who they are, I just don't see the point of treating them as less than human.

 

4) Do protect myself. I mean that in the sack and in my heart. I'm not one to fall in love on a two week holiday; been burned too many times in my life, so I'm pretty careful nowadays about who I choose to love. Also old enough (or wise enough ) to know that great sex and a pretty face does NOT necessarily equal love!

 

5) Don't go overboard on gifts or hyperboles. From what I've read on the 'Net, it seems that BGs lose respect for men that are pushovers - probably make fun of easy marks with their friends.

 

There probably were some more, but I forget what they are right now.

 

As far as why I already paid for my hotel for my entire trip, it seemed like a good deal, so I wanted to lock in the rate. Remember, I'm still somewhat of a newbie when it comes to the BKK scene, so any helpful hints on this would be much appreciated.

 

Pattaya - I've thought about making that my destination after my next trip to BKK. Sounds to me like the prices are better, and women a bit nicer than in BKK (a generalization, I know, but that's the impression I've gotten from various sites).

 

Thanks,

monkey39

[monkey39]

Cent said:

Monkey39,

 

Oh, btw, welcome to the board. Hope you post some information, trip reports and stories here when you get a chance from time to time and give something back to the board for the next new guy coming on.

 

Cent

d

 

Thanks! My first trip to BKK was pretty tame, so not much I can add that would interest a newbie, but I hope to have some tales after my next trip!

[monkey39]

Old Hippie said:

Monkey,

 

Yes, absolutely tell your GF that you were cheating on her, women appreciate honesty. I was always honest with all my ex-wives and GFs...Thai women especially are known for their understanding in these matters! Welcome to the board!

 

 

" Is that a tongue in your cheek, or are you just happy to see me"

[Central Scrutinizer]

Monkey,

 

No matter how tame your trip was, there are still facts, opinions and info you can supply the board that may help others in making decisions. Like where did you stay last time? Was the hotel worth the money? Did they give you any problems bringing back ladies to your room? Which bars did you go to? How would you rate them? How were the drink prices, how were the staff, did you take someone from that bar and how were you treated? Any runners or problems from any of your ladies? Any lady try to change an already negotiated price? Did the hotel have a pool? Did you eat at any restaurants? How was the food? Was the menu price worth the food you were served? Stuff like this help others here, old timers and newbies, make decisions on different options for accomondation, bar hopping, where to find the most sanuk ladies, bars to maybe avoid, hotels with non-guest-friendly policies, if that particular hotel has a pool and what time of the day the pool lies in the shade or is sunny for tanning purposes, etc., etc. There are many forums here to place this info, and all input is appreciated by the others here old and new. So don't think you have little to contribute even though your stay was "tame". It's not just about the ladies and getting laid, but the total package, especially for the tourists who have less time to search around and experiment and want to maximize their time here with the least problems and complications. So post what you can in the appropriate forums for the rest of us. Hey, newbies sometimes post about hotels the expats have never heard of and might like to either use themselves when visiting Bangkok or Pattaya from Nakonnowhere where they live, or as a place to suggest to others. Stuff like this helps the board. The more info the better in my mind.

 

Enjoy your next trip over Monkey,

 

Cent

 

Cent

[sayjann]

welcome Monkey.

 

as others have said be upfront with the Girl,treat them the way you would like them to treat you.

 

i have been through the idea of keeping things quiet and it just did not work.

the BG Mafia is legendary and they will soon know what you are up to if you frequent a certain Bar.

even if you take 1 Girl one Night from a Bar and then another from another Bar 10 Miles away on consecutive Nights you will be seen by a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend and word will soon get back to the 1st Girl.

 

i decided to be and will still be upfront with the Girls and if i frequent a Bar (only a few where i am known) i tell the 1st Girl i take out that i am the biggest Butterfly they have ever known.

if i want to take a different Girl each Night i will and if the Girl cannot handle the situation then not her problem,not mine.

 

but remember that if a Girl likes you that much and wants to keep you for a few Nights she will often suggest that she has a friend who would like to join the 2 of you.

had a few good 3somes come along my way with this method.

 

whatever you decide good luck but just don't get bogged down with the 1st Girl you meet/want.

[Guest lazyphil]

<<If a wealthy old Jap wants her, he will get her, make no mistake on that>>

 

Really, I returned on a given date and she was there for me and still is, upstairs right now. Some bgs can be very sincere, dont always believe the cynics!!

[Guest]

Monkey.

 

I have a radical suggestion.

 

If you like "Joy", and would like to take an approach to differentiate yourself from "all the over" farangs - you could try NOT sleeping with her!

 

As someone who likes to keep his drinking seperate from his whoring this aproach has over the years turned up interesting results.

 

IMHO BG's are (in some ways!) just like "normal" people and once they figure that you actually like them for who they are (and not just the holes they sit on) they can be incredibly freindly and informative especially if not complicated by sex and "business" - this approach does take time - my trips usually are for many months at a go - but I have found that it is the BG's who I don't sleep with who I get bored with less and who I see year after year.

 

This does not mean that you cannot pay her barfine or tip her for time spent out of the bar, (after all she has to eat) but can take her for a few laps of Bangkok in the daytime (in my experiance a lot of the BG's do not get out and about too much in BKK) or even a few "normal" nightime places. You will learn a lot more about her outisde the P4P scene and will also see more of her normal (rather than working) persona as she becomes more comfortable with you.

 

Also a good opportunity to have someone teach you Thai (and vice verse English).

 

This approach means you also have two weeks to butterfly. Just do NOT shag anyone in her bar (or the bar next door!), or bring your new BG to see her, whilst she will know what you are doing and probably who with (and you vice verse) just don't talk about it - indeed I would suggest keeping off the subject of the P4P business full stop, unless it involves laughing at stupid Farang

 

BTW I think your "rules" are spot on - especially whatever you "promise", make sure you do. (even if in practice it means you promise very little).

 

 

Finally as (Cent?) already said whatever your amount of time spent in Thailand, your posts WILL be informative and of interest to others, including the "lurkers" - I would suggest that you have long gone past the title "newbie" already.

[MaiLuk]

Hi Mr Monkey:

 

Was looking over your rules and thought I would contrast with my own. Not because my rules are any better than yours (I?m sure some or most are not), but just so you can see how the scene will cause brain damage and twist your character into a grotesque reflection of its former self.

 

Monkey39 rule #1. Don't lie. Not necessary, and I have a guilty conscience about that sort of thing anyway.

 

[color:"green"] MaiLuk rule # 1) LIE. [/color]

 

 

Monkey39 rule #2) Don't make promises I'm not prepared to keep. It's my impression that most BGs have men make promises and let them down constantly, so if you make a promise, keep it. It distinguishes you from the others.

 

[color:"green"] ML rule #2) See ML rule # 1

[/color]

 

M39 rule #3) Do treat them with respect. I sometimes have an overly romantic view of women, which sometimes clouds my judgement; although it doesn't stop me from seeing the reality of who they are, I just don't see the point of treating them as less than human.

 

[color:"green"] ML rule #3) If a girl gives you an argument because you don?t want to buy her a ladydrink or for any other reason whatsoever, tell her to fuck off.

 

Following this rule BTW is better than, and eliminates the need for ML rules #1 and 2. It also leads to a better integration of your personality into a cohesive whole like buddha himself which BGs find attractive even in physically ugly farang.

[/color]

 

M39 rule # 4) Do protect myself. I mean that in the sack and in my heart. I'm not one to fall in love on a two week holiday; been burned too many times in my life, so I'm pretty careful nowadays about who I choose to love. Also old enough (or wise enough ) to know that great sex and a pretty face does NOT necessarily equal love!

 

[color:"green"] ML rule # 4) Mr M, I say fuck your heart. Not in a meanspirited way but in a liberating way. Never let the thought of being burned enter your mind. No reason to hold back, love as many bargirls as you can 'cause tomorrow (and I mean literally tomorrow) you and I may be dead and the bargirls just a faded memory of some old farang who thought he should protect himself. [/color]

 

 

M39 rule # 5) Don't go overboard on gifts or hyperboles. From what I've read on the 'Net, it seems that BGs lose respect for men that are pushovers - probably make fun of easy marks with their friends.

 

[color:"green"] ML rule # 5) BGs want their customers to give them baht. BGs say thank you so mutt when you bring them a plastic toy or a watch or a wok tho they are thinking how come farang not give me baht instead. OTOH, if you are hard on a BG by only giving her the minimum going rate for a shag and never buying her drinks or anything else, watch out she might think you are cool and start liking you the way she likes thai guys.[/color]

 

 

--------------

 

M39 said:

>>As far as why I already paid for my hotel for my entire trip, it seemed like a good deal, so I wanted to lock in the rate.<<

 

Yes a newbie mistake but a very small one not to worry. After a few days you will surreptitiously and in a deceitful way want to abandon the girl that has latched onto you because you are a newbie and have not yet accepted ML rule # 3. So somehow you will need to convince the hotel for a refund. This brings up a big rule to live by: When in LOS, never ever pay for anything in advance unless you absolutely have to.