Teacher head batted by bar owner!

[torrenova]

I think we must not lose sight of the fact that the Thais are a violent people, as are many 3rd world or developing nations. Vicious beatings are commonplace and almost condoned as the process of law does not want to get involved unless a profit can be made from the situation.

 

Irrespective of whether we live in LOS or not, we should not start kissing their Thai arses and putting up with this sort of shit. Even trying to find some justification is wrong.

 

Sure, many westerners drink too much and become obnoxious and worse but don't think for one minute that there isn't some Thai there waiting, scheming and trying to work out a way to profit from the situation. It may be a bar girl hoping for a tip, bill padding, short changing or beating the guy over the head with a stick.

 

It sickens me to read so many posts here and elsewhere, but moreso here, about how all the shit that is doled out to us expats and tourists can be explained away. Get your (brown) noses out of their arses I say.

[jitagawn]

Agreed.

Bullshit is bullshit no matter how you spin it.

[Guest]

Dude, you are pissing in the wind here.

 

My observation is that there are a lot of westerners in Thailand (or into the "Thailand thing") who have grievances related to farangland (job treated them unfairly, GWB is an idiot, Americans are morons, women won't touch me with a 10 foot pole etc etc etc).

 

For them, the dog-eat-dog nature of life in Thailand represents a sort of levelling of the playing field and they actually subconsciously enjoy seeing farangs "getting what's coming to them" because they see this sort of "justice" as transferentially addressing their grievances with western culture.

 

On the flip-side, I'll also note that we are possibly dealing with a sort of apples to oranges comparison here. At home, many of us would not venture into seedy nightlife areas that manifest society's socio-economic barrel bottom. Yet the events of this thread took place in precisely that sort of environment. This sets up a perhaps unrealistic discussion of what would happen "in the west" (you may not have a bar in the city's sleaziest red-light district in mind when you think about that) vs "in Thailand" (where you may be thinking about just such a place).

 

I fully agree with all of the points you are making about how this all reflects very badly on Thai society; just pointing this out.

[Guest]

Agreed.

Bullshit is bullshit no matter how you spin it.

True.

 

When you read the posts supporting the bar owner they are confusing: (a) how a smart, street saavy customer in Thailand should react when a confronted by a Thai in a situtation that could turn violent; and ( whether the bar owner's actions were justified.

 

While the arguments falling into category (a) might provide a level of self-satisfaction ("I am tough and street saavy and I have no sympathy for other farangs that aren't") they are entirely irrelevant to the issue here. The issue here is whether the bar owner's actions were justified; it shouldn't be made into a platform for cyber-bravado.

 

When considering whether the bar owner's actions were justified, we should focus on the few key facts we know that are relevant to this entire situation. The school teacher left the bar; the attack occurred on the street after he left the bar. This was not a case of someone trying to protect himself or his property. And the bar owner nearly killed the farang in this attack that happened after that farang left the bar. He was in intensive care.

 

This is precisely why that barowner would be quickly jailed in virtually any other developed country. And this is precisely why tolerance of this sort of nonsense by the police looks so bad to outsiders.

 

We don't know all of the facts and maybe a full investigation will reveal other facts that make cast a different light on the situation, but the few facts contained in this news report make it look like the attack was entirely unjustified. Substituting those facts (sidewalk attack) for preconceived notions on how farangs and Thais "typically" behave toward each other is sheer nonense. Dress it up however you want, but bullshit is still bullshit.

[..]

FIGJAM said:Now please enlighten me on what are the steps that you would take and the possibilities open to you to protect your children in Thailand and, in similar circumstances, in the USA. Then tell me about the general Thai attitude towards violence against women and the general American attitude towards the same matter and how it reflects itself in the different ways in which the Thai and American laws

Well, let's see. The issue with daughter would be handled in the same manner anywhere in the world: if the idiot would not take no for an answer and I were there, he would be picking himself up off the floor, probably more than once. Simple. Now, did daughter cause some of the issue? Maybe, because she was in a place near Nana (Bully's) playing pool. But the idiot who broke the "anachary rules" failed to acknowledge that Thailand is not one big brothel and not all women he see are whores. Therefore, it is his fault.

 

Violence towards women? It is a big a problem in the States as it is in LoS. Attitude? Well, recently in South Carolina, a law was passed to increase jail time for cock (chicken) fighting. But the same day, a law to make higher punishments for the second offence of wife beating was scrapped. You tell me what message that sends?

 

There are no "safe places" to raise children. There are just different sets of problems. Thailand vs US vs Oz vs Italy vs UK...it's all the same. But I think that problems/dangers are good because it teaches them that the world is NOT a nice place. I would rather they learn that when I am around to help them.

 

But back on topic. You and I do not know fuck all what happened that night -- do not trust what is written in the papers. Who knows their source for the story? I merely said that with no information at all, save for the time and location, I would side with the Thai given my experiences. I still would.

 

Regards,

SD

 

PS - I find it humorous that a guy who visits LoS a couple of weeks a year (if that) has it all figured out...nothing personal, just an observation.

[Zorro]

Suadum

 

You are living in complete denial if you don't recognise some very basic home truths that have been stated in this thread.

 

1. Thailand is a very dangerous place with very high levels of violence. Heck even the Thais themselves recognise that fact.

 

2.As a farang you have no legal rights in Thailand and as a result Thais feel that they can beat and kill farangs with impunity because the law often doesn't punish them.

Many farangs are murdered in Thailand every year yet most of these murders are listed as suicides and accidents.

As i stated before "assisted balcony jumps" is a cottage industry in Pattaya.

 

Torrenova said

 

"Sure, many westerners drink too much and become obnoxious and worse but don't think for one minute that there isn't some Thai there waiting, scheming and trying to work out a way to profit from the situation. It may be a bar girl hoping for a tip, bill padding, short changing or beating the guy over the head with a stick."

 

Exactly right.... and to me this shows you someone who knows the score in Thailand as it pertains to the tourist areas especially.

 

Let's not forgot one of our fellow board members here was beaten mercileessly a year or so ago.. Carew i think it was.

Yes, his crime was to walk home alone after getting drunk one night.

 

On a personal note i have never been a victim of violence in LOS but I was a bit drunk a few years back and decided to walk along the beach back to my hotel in Patong and noticed out of the corner of my eye two thai guys heading my way with obvious intentions and luckily i was sober enough to realise what was about to happen and quickly ran up to the main road.

A few more beers and i too could well have been a victim.

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

I have never lived in Thailand but I have friends that do. I have heard from them that Thais are at least as nasty to eachother as they are to us. I have also seen this close up as I have spent quite a lot of my life here. You should know how nasty the sweet and smiling bar girls are can be to each other just out of envy.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post I have encountered out of control drunken Thais but there have alwas been other Thais to take care of the situation.

 

I still maintain that I'm much safer when I go out drunk at night in Bkk than I am in Stockholm.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

Tourist and resident foreigners do sometime get killed but mostly the cops get on the ball and take the perp to justice. Sometimes the violence may not be provoked but mostly it is. Also there as Swedish saying "act like a victim and you will become a victim" I think this holds true in any country.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[..]

Zorro said:

1. Thailand is a very dangerous place with very high levels of violence. Heck even the Thais themselves recognise that fact.

Thailand is by any metric less dangerous and violent than my home country. Especially when it comes to being a farang.

 

Zorro said:

2.As a farang you have no legal rights in Thailand and as a result Thais feel that they can beat and kill farangs with impunity because the law often doesn't punish them.

Many farangs are murdered in Thailand every year yet most of these murders are listed as suicides and accidents.

As i stated before "assisted balcony jumps" is a cottage industry in Pattaya.

That is simply bullshit. As far as Pattaya goes, you get the dregs of humanity there, including farang organized crime. Every one of the guys you read about are either unemployed overstayers, or dubiously employed; most all are down to their last satang. I know the type -- they scam everybody trying to get enough money for their next beer (have a drink in Cathouse some time and you'll meet a few potential baclony jumpers that haven't made it to the Shitty-City-by-the-Sea yet). They have no sense that it is time to go home. Likely they have pissed off the wrong person. Likely it is farang-on-farang violence too. Or maybe they really did jump off that balcony?

 

Zorro said:

On a personal note i have never been a victim of violence in LOS but I was a bit drunk a few years back and decided to walk along the beach back to my hotel in Patong and noticed out of the corner of my eye two thai guys heading my way with obvious intentions and luckily i was sober enough to realise what was about to happen and quickly ran up to the main road.

A few more beers and i too could well have been a victim.

Hmmmm, I see. A "rich" drunk guy walking in a dark, deserted area in a poor place. Two guys sizing him up to rob him. Yup, I can see how that this would never happen anywhere other than Thailand. </snark>

 

Amazing to me the number of guys who really hate this place yet insist on coming here. Maybe their attitudes shine through and gets them into trouble? Who knows. I *always* live by the Golden Rule and it seems to serve me well -- similar to Alholk thoughts.

 

But hey, go on and have you fun pounding your chest and saying that all Thais suck and you hate this place. I have lived here a long time and while it is not perfect, it is pretty good -- probably as good as it gets on Earth. And yes, I feel safe here. And I *know* from experience that the coppers are not as bad as some of you believe. But it all falls on deaf ears because you already believe what you want.

 

Enjoy your hatred.

 

Regards,

SD

[cardinalblue]

Most of us who come to LOS come from societies where democracy, due process, civil rights, and a host of other mechanisms e arin place.

 

While no certain mean a perfect system, for the most part it works out even though probably every one of us has felt cheated or injustice to us has occurred somewhere in our life. We basically buy into it or leave.. More importantly our expectations are set...

 

Enter LOS which is much more representable of the rest of societties that are not fully democratic. One will see much more injustice, power plays, more wrongs being committed, bad dealings, dog eat dog scenarios, etc.

 

To live in a society like LOS, one needs to constantly remind themselves they are in a foreign land not having access nor the rights that they enjoyed back home and continually vigilant of potential harm or bad situations developing.

 

If one can do that, one can live a peaceful and happy existence in LOS as they manuever around these various obstacles. Common sense and cultural empathy play vital roles in this..

 

One needs to continue to respect another culture even at times to give in or put oneself in short term losses ifor eventual long term gains that one avoided a potentially much worse situation. I think falangs who don't beat the "i have rights and due process" themes will do much better here than falangs who expect their upbringing to function on a foreign turf...

 

CB