.. Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 jxxxl said:Would that include crime statistics i.e., as a benchmark? You made an assertion that the CIAWFB is the benchmark, care to back that up? Oh, and who actually collects this data? The CIA? Or, do they rely on the numbers published by the government and make some subjective adjustments? Who says? Everybody. Do your own research because anything I post will not be good enough for you (i.e., "you're biased!"), I am sure. As I said, if you have facts to back up your conjecture, than I am all ears. Just because you think it is true, does not make it so. At least I back my arguments with facts available. As I said before, I am amazed that all you guys who hate this place so much visit here so much or work here. Better get posted or holiday elsewhere tuit suite or the boogieman will getcha! But like I said, I am bored now. No one knows how to support any arguments here aside from talking louder (the neo-con way to "win" a debate), so bye bye. You win. I shouldn't capitulate, but I'm bored and am smart enough to stop talking to a brick wall. PS, yes very unlikely you will be murdered in Oz with that lovely 1/100,000 rate. IMHO, it probably has 99% to do with their gun control laws, but not tell the US NRA wackos that. It's too simple for them to comprehend! Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownFox77 Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Thanks for the interesting stats SD. If there were seperate stats just for the (heavily policed) Falang areas by themselves it would be interesting to see.. (comment inspired by a distant post from the ghost of Fly) I happened across this site, "NationMonstor" which seems to have all sorts of stats on many countries, including crime. Looking at this link on total crimes by country, The US doesn't look too good at all: Total Crimes by Country Clicking on the "show per Capita" button however changes the display quite a bit, with Thailand not even among the top 43... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Thanks. I am not a teacher, but I still try to educate. FYI, NationMaster is a reformatting of the CIA World Factbook and is quite good because it is easier to parse all the information. I would love to compare say, New York, London, and other big cities with Bangkok as it would be more appropro, but I could not find those stats. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummigut Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Suadam: I think those statistics aren't very useful. The US is a litigious society. There's something to be gained by reporting things. In Thailand, a lot of the stuff gets swept under the rug, not reported, or settled "outside" of the police station and thus no reports. Burglaries seems much more prevalent here than New York. Assaults as well. I've walked the south bronx and harlem when asian's weren't particularly welcome by the black community, but I've never been mugged or physically assaulted. I have been mugged here (via motorcycle taxi). I know two people directly who've been mugged by motorcycle taxis in the past two years, and have heard other numerous stories. Let's not even talk about rapes!!! <<burp>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Gummi, You are as I recall from other posts, frequently mistaken by Thais as being a Thai? If so, this may have played a part in why you were picked as a victum...? I am wondering how much size plays a part in this, the average farang being bigger than the average Thai, might explain the full on all out what has been called excessive attacks on farangs...A smaller person wanting/needing a weapon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 suadum said:Pehaps, even probable. But without hard numbers to the contrary, it is all pure conjecture. Therefore my analysis stands. Cheers, SD And according to the numbers provided by your very same reliable source, IN THAILAND THE DRUG PROBLEM WAS SOLVED IN THE YEAR 2003 at the end of the (in)famous 3 months crackdown (it actually was solved... twice, after a second softer wave). Is this a fuming pile of crap? Perhaps, even probable. But without hard numbers to the contrary, it is all pure conjecture. Therefore this statement stands as much ground as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Old Hippie said: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: This is getting really redundant and boring... The only thing in this thread that I find really redundant and boring are those keeping making OT comments to which they have already got their replies (and failed to counter-comment) and at the same time keeping avoiding to answer/comment the IT questions they were presented with. OH (1) -- If you think Thais are dangerous and hypocrites, than stay home, or go some place else... OH (2) -- wait, I said that already...in any event, never mind the damned excuses, explanations etc...if you think Thailand is so dangerous, then just stay out, stay home where you think it is safe, or go someplace else...enough of this! Reply to both -- I have found all of the 3rd world countries that I have visited to be (more or less under the surface, as is the case in LOS) to be utterly ruthless and certainly deeply violent and dangerous. In the case of some of them (like Thailand) there are other trade offs that will see me visiting the country and enjoying what my being born in the West make me able to afford but in no way I would have my children grow up there or I would encourage any of my relatives and friends to visit such places where, if/when the shit hit the fan, you get the real taste of what 3rd world culture, 3rd world laws, police and judicial system really mean... We are NOT debating on whether it is worth to visit Thailand but on wheter the Thais' attitude towards violence is comparable to that of the Westerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 suadum said:As I said before, I am amazed that all you guys who hate this place so much visit here so much or work here. Better get posted or holiday elsewhere tuit suite or the boogieman will getcha! Standard reply to "broken records" on this thread: We are NOT debating on whether it is worth to visit Thailand but on wheter the Thais' attitude towards violence is comparable to that of the Westerners. And the reply to your OT comment: I have found all of the 3rd world countries that I have visited to be (more or less under the surface, as is the case in LOS) to be utterly ruthless and certainly deeply violent and dangerous. In the case of some of them (like Thailand) there are other trade offs that will see me visiting the country and enjoying what my being born in the West make me able to afford but in no way I would have my children grow up there or I would encourage any of my relatives and friends to visit such places where, if/when the shit hit the fan, you get the real taste of what 3rd world culture, 3rd world laws, police and judicial system really mean... But like I said, I am bored now. No one knows how to support any arguments here aside from talking louder (the neo-con way to "win" a debate), so bye bye. You win. I shouldn't capitulate, but I'm bored and am smart enough to stop talking to a brick wall. And this coming from someone who is still hiding from the totally in-topic post #421334 (and nobody is shouting there...). In more ways than one, it seems you have "gone native", suadum. And it's very hard to discuss with somebody who, lacking arguments to reply, won't simply acknowledge you anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 suadum said:I was not going to come back to this, but given the silliness of the statments made, here are some FACTS: Crimes per 100K population, per the CIA World Factbook, 2005 edition: Assaults: TH - 32.9, US - 756.9 Burglaries: TH - 21.6, US - 710.0 Car thefts: TH - 5.4, US - 388.0 Drugs offences: TH - 428.9, US - 560.1 Frauds: TH - 11.2, US - 125.7 Murders: TH - 8.4, US - 4.3 Rapes: TH - 6.6, US - 30.1 Robberies: TH - 1.3, US - 138.5 Total crimes: TH - 922.9, US - 8006.6 Yup, there is a higher murder rate in Thailand, but in both cases the numbers are small (as compared to places like the winner, Columbia at 62, or even Mexico at 13), so it is really inconsenquential. But on the whole, you are more than 8 times LESS likely to be a victim of crime in LoS than in the US. LoS is safer. QED. I rest my case. Regards, SD EDIT: Now I know some of you will winge that "Waaah, those numbers can't be right, I just *know* it!" Well, the CIA World Factbook is the benchmark in all types of country data. It is very well researched and highly respected. If you can find *numbers and facts* to support your feelings, from a reliable source, then by all means, post them with an attribution. Otherwise, accept that my posted facts are correct, proving my point. Living in Thailand you should have observed the locals' VERY strong resistance to get the police involved whenever it's possible (since they usually just ADD to the problem). The result is that MANY offences of the kinds listed above are NEVER reported. People feel there is just no point in doing so. You should also know that even when they are actually involved, MANY offences are dealt with informally (with the proper "fees"...). When there is nothing for them to gain you may see the cops actually LEAVING the scene of a crime at its onset (seen that many times upcountry especially in the case of street fights) or arriving only when it is all over. In short: in Thailand there is a definite negative drive to report to the police. In the USA, the opposite is true. Besides having a much more thorough distribution of the police forces themselves in the territory, there are many reasons for the people to call the police. Even when they are just bystanders or passersby, in a crowd of people assisting to an accident, a violent scene, a fight, an animated row etc you are much more likely to have somebody anonymously calling the cops (and the cops actually showing up) in the US than in Thailand. Reporting (which in some cases is even mandatory, especially as the indirect result of having to help/call for help the victims of such offences who are wounded and/or in life threatening condition) assaults, burglaries, car thefts, drugs offences, frauds, murders, rapes, robberies is done in the US for example for insurance reasons, to obtain "restrictive orders" from a judge, to make claims towards govt or private entities/agencies/organizations, to ask for compensations/being repaid of the damage and so on and on or simply because of the much higher chance to get some justice (because of police forces and judicial system overall infinetely more efficient, less corrupt, better ruled by better laws etc etc etc). In today's America housewives are calling the police because the children won't do the homework! In short: in the US there is a definite positive drive to report to the police. Add to all of this the different definitions/classifications applied to the types of offences listes, the trustworthiness of the two different bureaucracies and their different means and human and technical abilities to properly collect, process and elaborate the datas and you can see for yourself how accurate is the picture which emerges from this comparison... IN ANY CASE, I thought the unresolved question was the Thais' attitude towards violence in comparison to that of the Westerners, rather than the likeliness of being the victim of such violence. Especially when the latter is commented upon by individuals usually living in much better policed and well defined (and SMALL) areas of the kingdom.... If you were living in Detroit in the zones whose neighborhood is made of people earning 10/20 times the average American your experiences could have been slightly better, what do ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaimaisabai Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hi figjam, I think you are getting very wound up about making a point that most would accept - Thai attitudes to violence are different from in the west. In fact, Thai attitudes to just about everything are different from in the west. You are going on to use the fact that there is a lot of violence that is largely unseen by farangs to prove that Thailand is an undesirable place to live, work and raise families. As others have said, there are trade offs and that makes it a matter of individual choice - not a black and white/right or wrong answer. I was recently in the UK and found the place dull, uniform and conformist. For all its faults, I would choose Bangkok any day. Khwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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