Stickman this week regarding violence .

[FIGJAM]

MaiLuk said:

Excellent post.

[...]

Cent's post sums up the reasons and tourists should read that post closely. Could save someone's ass to be aware of those "meek" appearing thais.

???

He has more or less repeated and confirmed what I have been writing over the two threads on violence in LOS and in this very one. You didn't seem that much in agreement with me but you are with him?!? ::

 

At Figjam: You think i have a double standard about farang and thai guys

Your posts seem to clearly show that, you haven't explained the contradictions in them evidenced by my last reply to you.

[FIGJAM]

pattaya127 said: I think the girl only meant, "why you waste time, why you yakyak, 20bahts not too much for you".

Perhaps you could use a little bit of the energy you put into making these wild ass guesses into others' minds and thoughts and try to put together a reply to that last post of mine to you...

 

I thought you were calling yourself out of the discussion, having run out of arguments (like some others in this and the other thread on the violence in LOS), but you are instead just keeping on posting the same exact arguments which have been refuted and which you have failed to defend and back up... Weird.

 

On the other hand, it could well be that you are really capable of reading others' minds (at least Thai ones) and you are just not willing to waste any more time with me.

After all, as you wrote, you "have travelled a lot around thailand, more than anyone here i am sure".

[Zorro]

Normally I would have paid the 20 baht even thou we travelled hardly any distance at all and he went the wrong way.

 

This time I just felt like at least i should say something and try and remember i never lost my temper it was him who did his lolly and threw the money out the window.

 

I suppose as Figjam mentions in his post many Thais are conditioned to take it up the arse and dont complain about these things. '

It is often difficult for a farang who is not condtioned to behave this way and not to revert to form and start to complain about these things that can build after a long period of time and suddenly find himself in a shitstorm.

You see it is one thing to intellectually know the right thing to do in a given situation but long term conditioning can often override this intellectual knowledge.

This presents a big challenge to one who decides to stay long term in LOS. In many ways one has to reshape or at least try to reshape certain ingrained behaviour patterns. This is something that may not be easy to achieve and for many may not be something that they would necessarily want to achieve.

[buffalo_bill]

MaiLuk,

 

there is one guy active in this thread , I do not say who it is , whom I will make first president of the Flyonzewall memorial club.

 

BuBi

 

My platonic urban again suggests to visit her family. Sincerely hope the property needs no improvement.

[Zorro]

"there is one guy active in this thread , I do not say who it is , whom I will make first president of the Flyonzewall memorial club."

 

I assume you are referring to Figjam here.

 

That is a typical cheap shot by someone bereft of any positive contribution or someone who lacks the argumentative skills to counter what I would have thought were some very good points made by the above poster.

 

Far better that you address the issues at hand than make snide references to other posters that have no beariing whatsoever on this thread.

[FIGJAM]

Zorro said:I suppose as Figjam mentions in his post many Thais are conditioned to take it up the arse and dont complain about these things.

But it's fundamental keeping in mind that's what usually happen when Thais are dealing with higher status/wealth/connections Thais.

For the reasons already pointed out, we farangs are, unfortunately, increasingly lower in status in today Thai society and these kind of reactions towards us are bound to rise in frequency...

 

I can hardly picture bahtbus drivers (who more or less score as "scum" on their social ladder) foulmouthing and throwing money at high up Thais' faces...

 

 

It is often difficult for a farang who is not condtioned to behave this way and not to revert to form and start to complain about these things that can build after a long period of time and suddenly find himself in a shitstorm.

You see it is one thing to intellectually know the right thing to do in a given situation but long term conditioning can often override this intellectual knowledge.

This presents a big challenge to one who decides to stay long term in LOS. In many ways one has to reshape or at least try to reshape certain ingrained behaviour patterns. This is something that may not be easy to achieve and for many may not be something that they would necessarily want to achieve.

Very well worded.

[Central Scrutinizer]

FigJam,

 

"While groups fightings may be more common now (gangs etc),"

 

Not just gangs, but even groups of friends out and about partying. There is a new mentality among our youth it seems where fair play and a one-on-one fight is no longer the norm when trouble breaks out and fighting starts. I don't know where this has come from (it certainly isn't something taught by parents) but it is very common now for these fights to turn into brawls, and a lot of gang-ups on the lone or a couple people from a much larger group. Ratpacking as some here call it.

 

"involving a group of friends and relatives to resolve what originally was a one person vs one person dispute IS DEFINITELY NOT THE USUAL "FARANG" MODUS OPERANDI NOWADAYS."

 

I'd say that depends on who and where. But friends, yes, relatives less likely, but it does happen in the poorer less educated areas in the states as well.

 

"Are you really seeing Americans, nowadays, forming groups of friends and family to go back and beat up their original single opponents?"

 

Friends, yes, certainly. Family members, yes, but to a lesser extent than you'd possibly find in Thailand, but then Thailand is a lot more family oriented. In the village this would be a certainty when trouble starts.

 

"I am certainly NOT seeing that in Italy and there are NO consistent news being reported showing this new trend forming and spreading."

 

That's good to hear, but are you telling me this wasn't a lot more common 50 to 100 years ago in Italy? There were no family fueds and fights settled between family members? And besides this, nowhere in my post did I mention "families" ratpacking. So really you are taking someone else's arguments (or your own previous ones from another post) and bringing them into my post for argument.

 

"And moreover, talking now about disputes between a national and a foreigner, I have witnessed in Thailand BYSTANDERS and PASSERSBY getting involved in farang beatings when they had fuck all to do with the matters involved."

 

Yes, seen and heard about this before, and it is disturbing to say the least. A herd mentality. But in my post I didn't mention this.

 

"Show me this happening in farangland on a consistent basis."

 

It doesn't, at least as you say, consistently.

 

"I am waiting for your consistent reports of bands of Americans intervening on the side of a single American attacked or attacking a single foreigner."

 

Then you'll be waiting a while, but if I take the time later I'll be able to show you many instances without much problem, of both examples.

 

"And this is another aspect of their xenophobia I've touched upon."

 

You see this as xenophobic?

 

"In Thailand being wealthy is someway an indication that you are to some extent "a better person"."

 

I don't know about "better", but more powerful, yes.

 

"Thais are not spitting hatred and resentfulness over the wealthy higher classes and there are no evident signs of mounting social unrests from the mass of "have-nots" towards the ruling rich, arrogant, elitist, snotty "haves"."

 

They're well trained I'd say by the elite and their religion. But there are comparisons (even in Italy) in earlier times in farang history and in the present.

 

"Thais are taught from day 1 to bend over and take it all up the ass with a smile and no lube if it comes from someone of higher status and/or economic means (which usually go hand in hand in LOS)."

 

I fully agree with this staement of yours.

 

"That's why in LOS you see the rich obscenely flaunting their wealth in all possible ways in their fellows' poorer faces, cutting queues, parking wherever they feel like, abusing vendors, service staffs and so on without fear of any bullshit cultural taboos..."

 

Yes, I've seen this many times, and wonder how the lower staus people stand it and don't fight back. Again, religion and trained from birth to accept it.

 

"The problem for us farangs is that we don't usually even score in their pecking order and for sure farang drunk whoremongers are little above soi dogs, and I imagine you know how Thais feel for sick old soi dogs..."

 

Exactly why it is so dangerous to start trouble or get in an argument. We have no class. We are not Thai. If the shit starts we are very vulnerable in Thailand.

 

I agree with a lot you are saying FigJam. No argument from me.

 

I wanted to spend more time on this, but the mother-in-law is in the hospital getting operated on and I have to go now. Maybe later.

 

Cent

[buffalo_bill]

I have already adressed the matter by saying that I am a tourist , belonging to a species that the Thai population likes more than foreign citizens constantly complaining about something that is a Thai national issue . I am not even displeased about Thai police , Thai violence , Thai wtf . I just like the country. Platonically , for that matter.

 

BuBi

[FIGJAM]

buffalo_bill said:

MaiLuk,

 

there is one guy active in this thread , I do not say who it is , whom I will make first president of the Flyonzewall memorial club.

Perhaps you are missing some of those "animated" (to say the least...) discussions Flyonzewall and I have had here when I was using my old nickname.

 

Although we would often agree on the observation of the basic facts and the reality of the Thai society and life (remember that both of us don't have anything near the vast amount of combined knowledge you and pattaya127, for example, have) we would often have deeply different reactions and opinions on them and our discussions normally ended with him getting personal and shouting abuses, me replying in kind and the mods intervening threatening bans...

 

 

My platonic urban again suggests to visit her family. Sincerely hope the property needs no improvement.

A balcony maybe?..

[Guest]

Living more than 3 years here I do tend to believe this place is more prone to violence than most of us think it is.

Living here more than 10 years I am certain it is.