kamui Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 We might agree to disagree. But what do you say about the competence of the professionals involved? I mean everybody outside the US thought that US military planes would drop tons of supplies into the area on the next day. We learnt for years that the US army is the best trained and equipped army of the world and has the shortest response time of all armies due to their skills. :: A few years ago there was an earthquake in Turkey and 24 hours later German search and rescue teams arrived at the place where the disaster stuck. This is of course no comparison to the situation in N. O., but thats ALL people around the world expected to happen in the US. Now Indonesia a third world country donated 25.000 US$ to the US Red Cross, isn't this embarrassing for the worlds superpower. And something else: The complete breakdown of the society came as a complete surprise to me and many people. Lootings, rapes, killings, even shootings at rescue teams and the siege of a police station like in an famous hollywood movie and police men fleeing the town (two were stopped in the country side by police, because the police thought that both were looters, but the the two just had changed clothes.) Nothing of this happened in the much, much poorer areas hit by the Tsunami. IMHO there must be something terribly going wrong in N.O. (only in N. O.?) since years. Following your argument this cannot have been cause by extreme poverty, since you said the people are not that poor, which makes it even more worse IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 kamui said:. IMHO there must be something terribly going wrong in N.O. (only in N. O.?) . The State of Louisiana has been as corrupt as any SEA country you can name for DECADES. And the City of New Orleans has a reputation of being even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchapstick Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 From the NY Times ... best op-ed I've read on the subject to date. Op-Ed Columnist Falluja Floods the Superdome By FRANK RICH Published: September 4, 2005 AS the levees cracked open and ushered hell into New Orleans on Tuesday, President Bush once again chose to fly away from Washington, not toward it, while disaster struck. We can all enumerate the many differences between a natural catastrophe and a terrorist attack. But character doesn't change: it is immutable, and it is destiny. As always, the president's first priority, the one that sped him from Crawford toward California, was saving himself: he had to combat the flood of record-low poll numbers that was as uncontrollable as the surging of Lake Pontchartrain. It was time, therefore, for another disingenuous pep talk, in which he would exploit the cataclysm that defined his first term, 9/11, even at the price of failing to recognize the emerging fiasco likely to engulf Term 2. After dispatching Katrina with a few sentences of sanctimonious boilerplate ("our hearts and prayers are with our fellow citizens"), he turned to his more important task. The war in Iraq is World War II. George W. Bush is F.D.R. And anyone who refuses to stay his course is soft on terrorism and guilty of a pre-9/11 "mind-set of isolation and retreat." Yet even as Mr. Bush promised "victory" (a word used nine times in this speech on Tuesday), he was standing at the totemic scene of his failure. It was along this same San Diego coastline that he declared "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq on the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln more than two years ago. For this return engagement, The Washington Post reported, the president's stage managers made sure he was positioned so that another hulking aircraft carrier nearby would stay off-camera, lest anyone be reminded of that premature end of "major combat operations." This administration would like us to forget a lot, starting with the simple fact that next Sunday is the fourth anniversary of the day we were attacked by Al Qaeda, not Iraq. Even before Katrina took command of the news, Sept. 11, 2005, was destined to be a half-forgotten occasion, distorted and sullied by a grotesquely inappropriate Pentagon-sponsored country music jamboree on the Mall. But hard as it is to reflect upon so much sorrow at once, we cannot allow ourselves to forget the real history surrounding 9/11; it is the Rosetta stone for what is happening now. If we are to pull ourselves out of the disasters of Katrina and Iraq alike, we must live in the real world, not the fantasyland of the administration's faith-based propaganda. Everything connects. Though history is supposed to occur first as tragedy, then as farce, even at this early stage we can see that tragedy is being repeated once more as tragedy. From the president's administration's inattention to threats before 9/11 to his disappearing act on the day itself to the reckless blundering in the ill-planned war of choice that was 9/11's bastard offspring, Katrina is déjà vu with a vengeance. The president's declaration that "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees" has instantly achieved the notoriety of Condoleezza Rice's "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center." The administration's complete obliviousness to the possibilities for energy failures, food and water deprivation, and civil disorder in a major city under siege needs only the Donald Rumsfeld punch line of "Stuff happens" for a coup de grâce. How about shared sacrifice, so that this time we might get the job done right? After Mr. Bush's visit on "Good Morning America" on Thursday, Diane Sawyer reported on a postinterview conversation in which he said, "There won't have to be tax increases." But on a second go-round, even the right isn't so easily fooled by this drill (with the reliable exception of Peggy Noonan, who found much reassurance in Mr. Bush's initial autopilot statement about the hurricane, with its laundry list of tarps and blankets). This time the fecklessness and deceit were all too familiar. They couldn't be obliterated by a bullhorn or by the inspiring initial post-9/11 national unity that bolstered the president until he betrayed it. This time the heartlessness beneath the surface of his actions was more pronounced. You could almost see Mr. Bush's political base starting to crumble at its very epicenter, Fox News, by Thursday night. Even there it was impossible to ignore that the administration was no more successful at securing New Orleans than it had been at pacifying Falluja. A visibly exasperated Shepard Smith, covering the story on the ground in Louisiana, went further still, tossing hand grenades of harsh reality into Bill O'Reilly's usually spin-shellacked "No Spin Zone." Among other hard facts, Mr. Smith noted "that the haves of this city, the movers and shakers of this city, evacuated the city either immediately before or immediately after the storm." What he didn't have to say, since it was visible to the entire world, was that it was the poor who were left behind to drown. In that sense, the inequality of the suffering has not only exposed the sham of the relentless photo-ops with black schoolchildren whom the president trots out at campaign time to sell his "compassionate conservatism"; it has also positioned Katrina before a rapt late-summer audience as a replay of the sinking of the Titanic. New Orleans's first-class passengers made it safely into lifeboats; for those in steerage, it was a horrifying spectacle of every man, woman and child for himself. THE captain in this case, Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, was so oblivious to those on the lower decks that on Thursday he applauded the federal response to the still rampaging nightmare as "really exceptional." He told NPR that he had "not heard a report of thousands of people in the convention center who don't have food and water" - even though every television viewer in the country had been hearing of those 25,000 stranded refugees for at least a day. This Titanic syndrome, too, precisely echoes the post-9/11 wartime history of an administration that has rewarded the haves at home with economic goodies while leaving the have-nots to fight in Iraq without proper support in manpower or armor. Surely it's only a matter of time before Mr. Chertoff and the equally at sea FEMA director, Michael Brown (who also was among the last to hear about the convention center), are each awarded a Presidential Medal of Freedom in line with past architects of lethal administration calamity like George Tenet and Paul Bremer. On Thursday morning, the president told Diane Sawyer that he hoped "people don't play politics during this period of time." Presumably that means that the photos of him wistfully surveying the Katrina damage from Air Force One won't be sold to campaign donors as the equivalent 9/11 photos were. Maybe he'll even call off the right-wing attack machine so it won't Swift-boat the Katrina survivors who emerge to ask tough questions as it has Cindy Sheehan and those New Jersey widows who had the gall to demand a formal 9/11 inquiry. But a president who flew from Crawford to Washington in a heartbeat to intervene in the medical case of a single patient, Terri Schiavo, has no business lecturing anyone about playing politics with tragedy. Eventually we're going to have to examine the administration's behavior before, during and after this storm as closely as its history before, during and after 9/11. We're going to have to ask if troops and matériel of all kinds could have arrived faster without the drain of national resources into a quagmire. We're going to have to ask why it took almost two days of people being without food, shelter and water for Mr. Bush to get back to Washington. Most of all, we're going to have to face the reality that with this disaster, the administration has again increased our vulnerability to the terrorists we were supposed to be fighting after 9/11. As Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism czar, pointed out to The Washington Post last week in talking about the fallout from the war in Iraq, there have been twice as many terrorist attacks outside Iraq in the three years after 9/11 than in the three years before. Now, thanks to Mr. Bush's variously incompetent, diffident and hubristic mismanagement of the attack by Katrina, he has sent the entire world a simple and unambiguous message: whatever the explanation, the United States is unable to fight its current war and protect homeland security at the same time. The answers to what went wrong in Washington and on the Gulf Coast will come later, and, if the history of 9/11 is any guide, all too slowly, after the administration and its apologists erect every possible barrier to keep us from learning the truth. But as Americans dig out from Katrina and slouch toward another anniversary of Al Qaeda's strike, we have to acknowledge the full extent and urgency of our crisis. The world is more perilous than ever, and for now, to paraphrase Mr. Rumsfeld, we have no choice but to fight the war with the president we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Just for the record: This is probably the most quoted comment on the disaster in western media: September 3, 2005 United States of Shame By MAUREEN DOWD Stuff happens. And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens. America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America. W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer. Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal. Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses. Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs. Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports. Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl. In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us." Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq. Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island. Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared. Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center. Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode. When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals. When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed. Who are we if we can't take care of our own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadaBing Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 kamui said:Indonesia a third world country donated 25.000 US$ to the US Red Cross, isn't this embarrassing for the worlds superpower. That has to be the dumbest fucking thought I have seen , why would the US Governmant give a crap about who gives what to a charitable organization ? After 911 , american kids were donating 2-3 dollars to charities helping out. Is that an " embarrassment ? We will take care of our own , in our own way , and if outsiders want to critisise us of the way it's done , have fun doing it. We are always here waiting for you to ask for a hand when needed. And fuck all if the US of A ain't the # 1 asked from on the worlds hand out list ! Bada Bing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 While my comment might not have been the most qualified, as far as I see all qualified critics are coming from inside the US: - from Scientists - Emergency professionals (water management, weather experts, engineers) - politicians of _both_ parties, but especially from the black caucus (I am not speaking of Kayne West) - media of all colour (no pun intended) - almost all people on the street in N. O. - the mayor of N. O. - even G. W. Bush himself gave negative comments on the situation e.g., e.g. I just have seen on tv a scene with a high ranking politician (I don't know if it was the governour) flying above a dike being repaired. When she saw that there was only one lonely earth-mover at work she was so shocked that she burst into tears in front of the camera. This are the kind of scenes we see for days on CNN and other news channels.... One minute ago there was second scene like this on CNN: The president of Jefferson Parish started to cry during the inverview, because his mother was not rescued and was dying. He was absolutely fed up with all govermental officials holding "thumbs up" press conferences. It is so terrible to see this scenes life on tv. So far the only people who are convinced doing an absolutely great job are the heads of Homeland Security and FEMA. Bush will give them almost probably the medal of honour like to other governmental officials who failed in the last years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadaBing Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 I'm as angry as anyone about the way this has been handled , but my post to you was why should the U.S. Government and it's citizens be " embarrassed " about donations to a charitable organization helping out those in need ? Bada Bing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passingthru69 Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hi All, This is just my view. I am contracted with one of the major machinery carriers here in the U.S. I unloaded Wens. afternoon just south of Houston,Tx. Shit has hit the fan in La/ Ms. The company I work with contacted FEMA. Said we have trks and trls. available in the area. What do you need us to do and how to help. Their answer is, you're not on their contrator list and we have people on STANDBY... There were trucks in the Houston area with FEMA stickers just sitting there. Drivers were told hold tight.. I had to go to Pensacloa,Fl. and get a load. Ran just north of the area hit.. Downed power lines and trees still. This was Thurs late. I saw cars lined up at gas stations that were closed hoping they could get gas when they open.. I was in Pensacola all day Fri.. Saw combat troops heading towards the west. Not many relief units. Then Sat. When I finally got moving I was heading north in Alabama. Then I see relief trucks, mobile shower units and all the stuff they really needed like Tues... Should of been on the way then, not Sat... Just my point of view and what I saw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yfs Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 kamui said:Just for the record: This is probably the most quoted comment on the disaster in western media: September 3, 2005 United States of Shame By MAUREEN DOWD Stuff happens... Hey Kamui, why stop with a quote from Maureen Dowd? Why not quote Jesse Jackson while you're at it, or for that matter , Al Sharpton? You know, people that don't have an agenda. And then you compare Cuba to New Orleans? Does Cuba have the Mississippi flowing through it? After Hurricane Camille the response by FEMA and other agencies was prompt and effective. A fundamental difference many of you are missing is that there was extensive flooding afterwards, making rescue and recovery difficult (if not impossible). I am quite proud to be an American (although I'm not there at the moment) and nothing about this situation embarrases me. What does bother me is some non American (or anyone for that matter) telling me I should feel emabarrassed about something going on in my country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Right. No need to feel embarassed. What is happening in New Orleans just shows the world what makes America tick: Money. And violence. Some socialists who dream too much of Cuba just tend to forget this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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