ID To Be Needed At Soi Cowboy Bars

[Guest]

Gadfly1 said:

Most tourists will not reasonably expect that they are required to carry their passports with them at all times. No sane tourist will carry his original passport with him when drinking in Soi Cowboy, NEP, discos or any other night time venue.

 

 

 

That brings us to a far larger issue - the ability of fast and easy travel to developing nations and the need of understanding that things there might not be as they are at home.

Most tourists and many expats are not really aware that things concerning law and its enforcement might be far less "fair" than things are at home.

Regardless of the issue of random passport checks being fair, legal or not, fact is that the police officer performing the search has the power to do so unless the to be searched comes up with something that persuades the officer not to so so. Being a farang is hardly enough to do that, obviously.

Neither will anyone caught without passport in a red light district get much sympathy from the Thai government, the media, or the embassies. The present Thai government has amply proven that it does not care that much about western sextourism, and favours family tourism (and no, rants about the imagined economical worth of sextourism won't persuade the Thai government otherwise. Especially because there are ample statistics that imagined benefits of sextourism are offset by its negative side effects).

The media will hardly champion the cause of a sextourist. And neither will embassies.

Go and ask any embassy what they can do for you when you are in legal trouble here, innocent or guilty. Other than advising you a lawyer, and visiting you once a while in prison during the years a trial usually takes here - FUCK ALL!

The only support one might get is in some internet boards from fellow sextourists, for what it's worth.

 

Point being here - don't attempt to change where you have no chance whatsoever to influence anything. Safe yourself unnecessary aggrevation over an easily avoided issue. Go the way of least resistence, and carry some bloody ID that is accepted by any uneducated street cop that might ask for it. I doubt though that a US driver license belongs to the in Thailand commonly recognised ID's.

 

If one expects though that things are the way they are at home, and that one has any chance of retribution when one feels that a cop mistreats one's imagined rights in that issue, then be free to feel that way. And prepare for some uncomfortable lessons.

[Guest]

The present Thai government has amply proven that it does not care that much about western sextourism, and favours family tourism (and no, rants about the imagined economical worth of sextourism won't persuade the Thai government otherwise. Especially because there are ample statistics that imagined benefits of sextourism are offset by its negative side effects).

The media will hardly champion the cause of a sextourist. And neither will embassies.

A few comments.

 

First, this really has nothing to with sex tourism. The police have conducted almost all of their urine and ID checks of farangs in bars that do not primarily cater to "sex tourists." The bars that have been hit the most are Q Bar, Bed and Club Mystique. These are upscale bars that carter to mixed crowds. They have also targetted discos and pubs frequented by Thais. If this was about sex tourism, they would be making farangs in NEP, Soi Cowboy and Patpong take urine tests, something which, to date, has been relatively rare. Indeed, patrons of NEP, Soi Cowboy and other farang oriented venues have been relatively immune to all of this - until now.

 

Second, family tourists would find it even more alarming to be detained because they forget to bring their passports with them when they went to visit the Grand Palace or the Lumpini Night Plaza. P4p tourists will complain about it, but they are obvously going to be more robust and more willing to put up with this sort of nonsense than a family of 4 on vacation from Kansas or Frankfurt.

 

Third, and this is a hoot: "there are ample statistics that imagined benefits of sextourism are offset by its negative side effects." No rants from me, but rather a question: what statistics? If these statistics really are ample, you should be able to quickly provide them.

 

But if you are having trouble finding your "ample statistics", perhaps you should consider the following:

 

- When you look at tourist arrival statistics for the countries that supply tourists who spend the most on a daily basis - Northern Europe, Northern America and Japan - the number of male arrivals out number female arrivals 2 to 1. I wonder why? Probably business travelers, right?

 

- The number of bars, pubs and clubs in the lower Sukhumvit offering some form of p4p has probably tripled over the last five years. It has clearly increased dramatically. You wouldn't have more places if there wasn't more demand for the services they offer. But no, wait: the substantial sums that have been thrown into these places doesn't reflect any underlying economic reality; rather it is the product of old farang farts setting up these sorts businesses as a hobbies in their old age (as stupid as it sounds, somebody actually made that argument here.)

 

- The hotels in Bangkok with the highest occupancy rates are 2 and 3 star hotels in the lower Sukhumvit area. Not exactly the type of hotels favored by families and international business travelers. Now what type of people do you think are most likely to stay in these places. Maybe it those mostly international business travelers who out number women 2 to 1?

 

- Take a look at Pattaya, the subject of considerable promotion by the Tourism Authority of Thailand. Imagine that place without a p4p industry - no go go bars, no massage parlours and no beer bars. Take away all of that, and you take away Pattaya.

 

But I am sure you have ample statistics that demonstrate that p4p means nothing to Thailand's tourism industry.

 

Actually, when you look at government statements about their policies, they are very careful to make it clear that they are not trying to eliminate places such as Patpong, NEP, Pattaya or other farang oriented p4p venues. They say their policies are aimed at underage participants and drugs, and I think those are the real objectives. What I take issue with is the objectionable and counterproductive policies used to acheive those objectives.

[Guest]

Gadfly1 said:

 

 

First, this really has nothing to with sex tourism. The police have conducted almost all of their urine and ID checks of farangs in bars that do not primarily cater to "sex tourists." The bars that have been hit the most are Q Bar, Bed and Club Mystique. These are upscale bars that carter to mixed crowds. They have also targetted discos and pubs frequented by Thais.

 

 

First, the changes announced in the thread title do concern sextourism. Soi Cowboy is not, to my knowledge, a mixed crowd entertainment area. Also, in the recent months frequently roadblocks were set up at lower Sukhumvit late night to specifically target farang for passport checks.

Secondly, the urine testing in the bars you mentioned only proves that the Thai police is less stupid than generally assumed. Many of our E and Coke party crowd are frequenting exactly those places.

 

Other than that, you can say whatever you want, fact though is that sextourists/sexpats will NOT get any sympathy from anyone anywhere other than from fellow sextourists when caught without passport.

Point being, regardless your or my opinion on sextourism, or the government's stand on it, if you get caught without a passport in any of the areas announced in the thread title, you will be pretty much on your own. No support. Whatsoever. And so far, i am yet to hear of passport or urine checks in areas of family tourism. or have you ever heard of that in front of the grand palace?

From what i can gather, TAT is anyhow not really going out of its way to attract single male tourists, but health tourists, family tourists, pacckage tour groups from countries such China, etc.

And it doesn't matter the slightest if you reason about perceived economical and other benefits of sextourism (whatever they may be), or any other form of tourism, because nobody will listen, or care.

You are better off talking to the wall, or simply carry your passport and worry about more important things. Things that may be in your power to influence.

[Guest]

...so I don't get the ample statistics you promised?

 

I am very disappointed. But I did get a stern lecture on what I should be concerned about, significant backtracking from your original post and a few humorous non-sequiturs, so I guess I will have to settle for that. ::

[Flashermac]

<< In Oz you do not even get a phone call. Ask for one and you will be told "this is not an American cop show!!" >>

 

 

I've read that polls showed that most folks in Oz think it is quite all right for the cops to pull you over and search your car with for no reason except that they want to. In the US that would cause a minor riot. "Where's your search warrant, copper?"

[OCgringo]

no search warrent needed anymore really,

 

"probable cause" is the magic word , the cops just make something up about you being nervous , must be a reason for that.......

 

Most of our rights in the USA have been shot full of holes, thank god for the ACLU that at least questions these rules.

 

OC

[Flashermac]

suadum said:

I clarified this whole mess with my Cowboy contacts last night (Thais, who were at said meeting at Old Dutch). The reason is exactly as Chang stated in his point #1. The Thai gummint is looking to enfore age regulations in bars. Acceptable ID in this case, to enter a bar, is *any* unexpired government issued ID as long as it has a picture and your birth date (so your home country driver's license is fine).

 

 

Oh, whoopee ... the Thai university ID cards do NOT have your age or birthdate anywhere on them -- and why should they.

 

Just my luck to be thrown in the slammer because the cops think I am under 21.

 

 

p.s. SD ... IF YOU LAUGH, YOU DIE!!!

 

 

[Guest]

Gadfly1 said:

...so I don't get the ample statistics you promised?

 

I am very disappointed. But I did get a stern lecture on what I should be concerned about, significant backtracking from your original post and a few humorous non-sequiturs, so I guess I will have to settle for that. ::

 

 

Nothing promised.

Go and read through some anthropological papers on the subject yourself.

Other than that, this is only a sidenote to the subject concerning passport checks and urine testing.

Try again, especially answering on my main points, and don't just pick and chose what appears to be convenient to you.

[shotover]

The Shark Bar has a sign outside their door stating customers should have passports or copies.

 

Any observations as to whether vehicle traffic is being prohibited during open hours (doubt it), or any bars asking for ID?

[..]

Aye, Baccara does too. But they do not mention copies. They say passports should be carried by all visitors to Thailand at all times.

 

Did not notice any signage at Old Dutch, Midnite or no name Bar earlier this evening.

 

Cheers,

SD