Girls travelling overseas...

[Old Hippie]

"...I can understand this in Thailand for someone with little chance of getting a well paid "respectable" job............it's a shame that this attitude travels with some to Farangland in that this is all they feel they are capable of for "good" money. Of course their is for some at least (IMHO) a large element of sheer laziness in this decision............."

 

 

I think Laziness and unrealistic life goals/acceptance of their life plays into it. Many of these girls have absolutely no concept of what is a reasonable life style/amoutn of money etc, or how to budget it. I gave a girl her salary in the morning, she went shopping, and was broke that afternoon...next day, she went to salon and lunch with her niece...

 

They want motor bikes, land, etc...yet don't seem to realize they can't afford it, and fail to accept this. I also want stuff I can't afford, but I accept it, and don't turn to crime or dodgy business to obtain extra stuff.

 

I have heard the poverty card played in LOS/Prostitution debate, as I have in the urban kid dealing drug debate here in the USA. All claim it is ok todo this, because society tells us we "need" these material goods...bullshit, it is just an easy way out.

 

The trouble for these girls is, they get into a life style they can't maintain. O.k. say they buy the house, motor bike, truck etc...nowwhat happens when it breaks? needs repair, maintaince etc... and there is no money? Back to the bar at age 50? or send you daughter out? I know one girl who is paying for her little sisterto go to school "...so she no hab to work bar..." O.k. so what happens when she finishes, and can't get a job? or wants MORE stuff/money?

 

The hypocracy in all this is, we (as in myself included) want to disguss this from our point of view, which isn't at all valid in this case. You can't bring our way of thinking into a different culture. Additionally, as punters, we are fueling the demand for services, thus driving this whole thing to a point.

 

To me, we can't engage in this game, buying hookers, then sit back and pass a judgement on them, or even raise a question as to why they do this...but that is another topic I suppose.

 

Basically, I got involved with one, and now have all these questions/ issues about it, full well forgetting that I have used enough of them over the years (I add boastfully) sort of pretty much makes me a hypocrite to question it I tend to think...

[jasmine]

[color:"blue"] The hypocracy in all this is, we (as in myself included) want to disguss this from our point of view, which isn't at all valid in this case. You can't bring our way of thinking into a different culture. Additionally, as punters, we are fueling the demand for services, thus driving this whole thing to a point.

 

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Most of you know my view-point well on prostitution. That is it is an easy way out for other options take work, patience and most of these people never get to have a house, cars that they want if they do normal work.

 

But why so many women from Isaan are doing this type of work? Not only poverty for many of at least 80% of other women are in the same boat but they do not sell themselves. It is the attitude of parents who force their children into it for it is the house and whatever material they want. And the Isaan women with my respect, want to help their parents. I admire these women who want to do anything for their parents, however, my attitude is for such parents who never give a shi* about their children do NOT deserve anything.

 

I remember growing in the North where we saw a few prostitutes and my father said "How can a parent tolerate the thought of their own daughters being bought for sex". My father went on more explicitely than that and that was an attitude of a man who could not imagine the cruelty a parent can inflict on a daughter by letting her become a prostitute. Of course a man like that could never use a prostitute either which is the same attitude my brother has. And here we saw some of the parents think nothing, some even boast how a daughter could get from a "farang".

 

For the daughter who is going to school, yes, hopefully she will get a decent job, but the money will never be the same as selling oneself. However, the dignity is better, IMO. If all Thai women who use poverty as an excuse to sell ourselves, I would been one.

 

Jasmine

[jasmine]

[color:"blue"] They find the far better paying life in the bars etc an easier option than 10 or 12 hours a day on minimum wage.

Simie.

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It is true that the money is better but the life shelf is shorter too. There is also something else in my book, that is dignity.

 

People don't do things because of poverty alone, if so many of us will steal, kill and sell ourselves.

 

I don't buy it my friend, when ones tell me because of porverty, it is much more than that. If it is just poverty, how come these women do not manage the money well so it can be only temporary? The future is not thought of, just living from day to day, impossible for me to comprehend.

 

Jasmine

[Old Hippie]

Jasmine,

 

This goes with what I said earlier "...what happens next...?" After the house, car what ever is bought, and years later needs work etc, who pays for it, if the girl is to old to work? I know many older women, who still have their old regulars they see a few times a year, though they long ago left the bars officially. How to go from making 40K a month to making 6-12 K in a salon or family shop up country (if that much?)

 

Another problem I frequently see is competition among/within the familes/girls...example, my once beloved SSG is building a big house with the money she earns and scams off the various monthly sponsors. Her younger sister, a former BG, wants one of her own. So she is going to leave her husband and kid on the farm, and go to work in a bar again...and hopefully earn the money for one, all supposedly unknown to her husband (a Thai)...not good. I wonder how many of these girls come from families where their mothers worked as prostitutes...? the current situation isn't exactly new...

[David_66_UK]

my father said "How can a parent tolerate the thought of their own daughters being bought for sex". My father went on more explicitely than that and that was an attitude of a man who could not imagine the cruelty a parent can inflict on a daughter by letting her become a prostitute.

 

Glad to hear this in one way, but also sad that it was felt neccesary / prudent. I am assuming (hoping?) that your father's / family attitude is NOT unusual.

 

I did try and start a thread a while ago about this (but it got lost enroute to the Board :: :

 

Although I have never taken up the offers for a visit up to Issaan to meet the family (and a bit late now!) - I have wondered about the attitude of the families that appear more than happy to send their daughters off to be prostitutes.......and then to live off the money - and how prevalent this actually is "up north" - obviously I only get to meet the gals whose families at least accept the situation even if not actively encourage it - so my "sample" is not very representative.

 

I have never met a BG who said that she had been disowned by her family for her choice of Job for bringing shame on the family - but I accept that the BG's are unlikely to be honest with me on this point! Anyone got to know a BG who was in this position of being disowned / ostracised by her family?

 

To a degree I can understand that some folk will send their daughters off to be prostitutes (human nature like this is NOT limited to Thailand ) - but it is always beyond my comprehension that the gals keep any respect for the family who take the money she earns.

[jasmine]

[color:"blue"] I have never met a BG who said that she had been disowned by her family for her choice of Job for bringing shame on the family - but I accept that the BG's are unlikely to be honest with me on this point! Anyone got to know a BG who was in this position of being disowned / ostracised by her family?

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I never met a BG that was disowned, however I met a few ex from the North who told me that they had to lie to the family what they did, never the case of Isaan women. Please remember I repect the attitude of Isaan people who want to pay back to the parents.

 

I was told by many friends who went back to Thailand that the attitude is different than at the time we were growing, as I am 55 years old, you can guess how long ago when I grew up. ::

 

Being away from Thailand since I was 16, I am not very current on many things in Thailand, but I have noticed that people are more materialist. The media really encourage them and the government seems to encourage people to get into debt (don't get me started on this, it is another issue). It is very difficult for humen to see other have more than them and many do anything to get the money, sad.

 

However, I met a woman, in fact I met her in Hawaii, very similar background as mine, graduated with a MS from Uni. of Hawaii in Honolulu who was disowned by her family for marrying an American man. I had 2 GFs who came to the USA as me and there was no way they could marry a non Thai and one of them even left her then BF (an American) to go back for the family is more important. Mine, fortunately did not mind, but I was warned that the rest of the people in my society might not accept it (I didn't care).

 

Things change quite a bit now, but still ones hear "trash farang" from certain people. I knew a physician who is married to a German who sometimes has a hard time in Thailand for the way certain people who know her prominent family treat her, for me, it is their loss, not mine and I am not married to a trash. Hubby can stand on his own anywhere.

 

I have a good friend with a PhD who works in Isaan once in a while, he said the attitude of these parents are that the kids get the money, don't care how.

 

I will post more on this issue.

 

Jasmine

[Old Hippie]

Si Saket girl recently Informed me, that her mother has a "don't ask don't tell" type arrangement, regarding the work of her daughters. (all of whom have been prostitutes at one point or another, hell, maybe the mother was as well at some point, who knows?). She said she never asks about boy friends, men etc, (but she remembers me ) or where all the money is comming from...no one in the family does. I asked her if she thought they knew and she said "...maybe they know maybe they don't..."

 

My question is, how does a decent looking girl with no education explain making all that money, and not have her family be suspicious...? Like wise, her younger sister ditching the husband and kid, comming to BKK, working bar, and returning home with a ton of cash, all un be knownst to her husband...? These guys are good at pretending, or else they don't care, or are really dumb...dumber than the Austrian who is paying for all this, thinking she is home watching t.v. better him than me...Thanks Hon you did me a favor...

 

Regarding the Issaarn element to all this, one girl from the south explained "...they are Lao people, not the same as Thai, a girl from my area could not go home with this money, and say she worked in a bar, the family would forget her...Issaarn people are proud their daughter is a hooker, and gladly take the money..." Of course, this girl was a hooker from the south...Glass houses honey!

[Old Hippie]

Ok still wound up on this one...I believe I mentioned, I know a Thai hooker here in the USA (big surprise there )from Korat. very nice girl, but I digress. She makes $200 an hour, sees maybe 20+ "clients" a week. has another girl (also Thai) sharing/working the apartment with her. SO maybe $1-150K USD a year, TAX FREE! Guess what, she'll quit (she says) when she has enough for her family, been at it for maybe 7-10 years...so back to the old question, how much is enough...

[David_66_UK]

I will post more on this issue.

 

Please do. Has been most interesting.

[Topcatta]

"Someone who is fed this unknowingly or without knowing what it is, and being of a personality that is susceptible to the effects of it, may well get very confused, flip out, or end up with some psychotic side effects."

 

Hallucinogens can also make the one who knowingly feds himself with these substances crazy. Unless are a shaman maybe. Look at the Red Roof Crazies ward where a lot of flip out old and neo hippies never did return out of their trip. Many Koh Phanganies try to swim to Samui convinced they can do the 10 k's easily with their bodies dead on arrival. That's why the Thai Militairy Police came down on the Full Moon Parties so hard and ppl are hassled about drugs still there all the time. Because they got too many complaints about body bags from Western embassies. This was a former drug heaven without any cops involved.