Nervous_Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 OK - So - Finland, pretty western country, I want to go visit my mate who lives there (Crazy Thai!) maybe I'll buy a little holiday cottage near a lake, steam my self up in the sauna, run out naked, scare the locals, and jump into the ice cold water <<Further, foreigners will also be able to purchase real estate in Finland, including forest land, with no restrictions. The sole exception is the purchase of vacation homes by foreigners, which will continue to be regulated by local authorities. (See Section A6)>> Bloody local Authorities. How about Greece - almost a civilised part of the world, I mean, they did teach the Italians all about culture didn;t they! <<Both EU and non-EU nationals may purchase land and buy or build a house in Greece. The purchase of property or other property transactions by foreigners in certain parts of Greece known legally as "Border Areas" is prohibited. The prohibited areas are the East Aegean, Dodecanese islands, and regions of Northern Greece, Crete, and Rhodes. >> Sounds like a whole bunch of neat places (I hear the nudists are cute in the Dodecanese islands) I cunt buy!! New it wasn;t a western civillised cuntry! DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 OK - So - Finland, pretty western country, I want to go visit my mate who lives there (Crazy Thai!) maybe I'll buy a little holiday cottage near a lake, steam my self up in the sauna, run out naked, scare the locals, and jump into the ice cold water <<Further, foreigners will also be able to purchase real estate in Finland, including forest land, with no restrictions. The sole exception is the purchase of vacation homes by foreigners, which will continue to be regulated by local authorities. (See Section A6)>> Bloody local Authorities. How about Greece - almost a civilised part of the world, I mean, they did teach the Italians all about culture didn;t they! <<Both EU and non-EU nationals may purchase land and buy or build a house in Greece. The purchase of property or other property transactions by foreigners in certain parts of Greece known legally as "Border Areas" is prohibited. The prohibited areas are the East Aegean, Dodecanese islands, and regions of Northern Greece, Crete, and Rhodes. >> Sounds like a whole bunch of neat places (I hear the nudists are cute in the Dodecanese islands) I cunt buy!! New it wasn;t a western civillised cuntry! Point I am making is we all complain (me too Fugjism) about the the Thai laws re home ownership, but I belive (10 minutes searching above) (Plus Fugjisms great reasearch) that many other "Western" countries also impose "unfair" restricitons. DOG DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Very true. But of course if you have a merely competent laywer in LoS, you can have your name of any piece of property you buy with your wife. I do, not because I do not trust Mrs Tiger (far from it and anyway this was her idea), but to save any heartaches later on if something happens to one of us. Very similar to having a will -- you do not have to have one, but it is a good idea. Anyway, Thai law will allow a foreigner to be on a land deed with the rider that if the a) marriage is disolved, or the Thai spouse dies, then the foreigner has 30 days to transfer the ownership of the property (since he cannot own it outright). I thought I'd stay away from this thread - at least the policy argument - since it has gotton to the point where we are repeating ourselves, but I will comment on this legal point. As I recall, I think it is actually an area where I agree with one of the members who favors the prohibition on foreign ownership of property. Actually, the law is the opposite of what you describe. Thai law will definitely not allow a foreigner to be on a land deed if he is married to a Thai woman. And it get's worse: if the Land Department knows that a Thai woman is married to a Farang (say, because she changed her last name), they will not allow her to buy property unless her Farang husband signs a document in their presence disavowing any interest in the property. What I find particularly curious is the level of confusion on this issue. Seriously, I don't intend this to be a criticism of anyone for misstating Thai law here, because I think there is a much more interesting issue lurking underneath all of this. I've had my disagreements with suadum, but I acknowledge he is generally knowledgable about Thailand. And yet, he got this basic issue wrong. And he is not the only one - I know plenty of Farangs that are totally confused about this issue. I was one. I posted in another thread about how a good Thai girl from a wealthy family tried to swindle me by introducing me to a lawyer to help set up a holding company to buy property about six or seven years ago. He really was a lawyer, but he was also her cousin (neither she nor her cousin/lawyer ever disclosed this), and the documents he prepared for me - his client - provided that I would act as the guarantor for her acquisition of the property. It's a long story, and I have already told it another thread. And if you go down to Pattaya, you will see a store front operation with a big sign that says something along the lines of "Yes, Foreigners Can Own Land in Thailand." That is BS (unless you are setting up a factory under BOI promotion, and this sign is obviously not intended for prospective factory owners.) Knowing that foreigners cannot own land here, how can anyone trust these store front operators? They trust them because they don't know any better, and many of the professional advisors - people that you would generally trust on something this basic in Western countries -are working against the prospective Farang property buyer's interests. They can do this because of the tremendous confusion that surrounds this issue. You can use a Thai majority owned holding company to control property, but these holding companies are cumbersome, expensive (you have to start paying corporate income taxes after a few years - trust me, I know) and seem to operate in a twilight zone of Thai law. As a consequence, many otherwise knowledgable Farangs have come to the mistaken conclusion that, as the sign on that Pattaya law office says, yes, foreigners can own property. The law in this area creates confusion among otherwise intelligent people - witness the post I quoted from above - and creates tremendous potential and incentives for fraud. And fraud in this area is rampant. This is another reason why the prohibition - and I used the word "prohibition" intentionally - on foreign ownership is a bad policy. It is another one of those nonsensical restrictions in Thailand that create tremendous incentives for corruption and fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Gadfly, "Actually, the law is the opposite of what you describe. Thai law will definitely not allow a foreigner to be on a land deed if he is married to a Thai woman." Actually I think SD may be right on this. I heard recently that this has changed. A farang can now put his name on the land and house papers, but if his wife dies he has a specific amount of time to change these papers to a Thai's name (believe it was either 30, 60, or 90 days, I'll have to try to find where I saw this), OR the Thai government can CONFISCATE the land and house upon it if the farang does not change the papers to a Thai's name. I believe this a fairly recent change in the laws to appease some of the farang doing the complaining about these restrictive land ownership laws. Either it is now a new law, or it was a proposed law that might still be awaiting the government to either approve it or disapprove it. I do remember recently (within the past 6 or so months)reading something very close to what SD has stated. Let's see if SD or I, or someone else here, can research this and get back to the thread with what we find out. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchapstick Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nervous_Dog said:Figjam, your writing while well researched is so full of inaccuracies and blatent insults and name calling it makes arguing with you moot. However shall we do ti ONE MORE TIME just for you seeing as your particularly dullwitted. Please do NOT feed the troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nervous_Dog said:Figjam, your writing while well researched is so full of inaccuracies and blatent insults and name calling it makes arguing with you moot. However shall we do ti ONE MORE TIME just for you seeing as your particularly dullwitted. I'm only doing this as your so kind to provide me with all your own arguements against yourself that it makes it pretty easy, but rather long. Thank you, I am so touched I feel I have to repay you in kind and do it the same for you one last time. <<You are the perfect example of the farang being screwed by the Thais and happily telling his fellow farang onlookers how gently the Thais are shoveling their smiling dicks up his ass... You are surreal. >> Thank you, I rather like Salvador Daliesque moments myself, however the surreality comes from your own blinkered approach to arguements. Lets see the above and deconstruct them shall as you seem to have a preleriction for 80's Art speak. Hmmm . . . . the tingling sensation of those thai dicks is quite lovely, Oh I am sure of that, you must be well used to it by now... but I think I'm the one doing most of the screwing. Aaah... the power of the mind... Besides, so what if it's in my wife and daughter name? $15 000 is not a lot to buy a large house and two farms, and leave to them if I die tomorrow (No wishfull thinking now Fugjam) The point is that you are not "leaving to them" anything tomorrow, it's already all theirs today. If they die tomorrow or simply decide they have had enough of you, you are out the door of those large house and two farms faster than it takes me to write it down. <<Yes you did because I asked you twice: if the parts were reversed and you and your wife were to buy land in OZ and building there "your pretty dam palatial neo resort place">> Mute point, couldn;t affor dthat in Aus! WTF is this shit? Who has asked you why you haven't built your house in OZ? We are comparing foreigners' rights of ownership in Thailand and Australia and that was a "what if" scenario to help you to understand the huge difference between Thailand and Australia by immediately confronting your real life situation in Thailand with the exact equivalent of it in Australia and seeing how in Australia you would be allowed to do what you haven't been allowed to do in Thailand. << could your Thai wife have the land and the house in her name? THE ANSWER WHICH YOU ARE ASHAMED TO GIVE ME IS "YES, SHE COULD". >> Why would I be ashamedd of that? Seems a silly concept n your part, but then I guess not. You have just once again avoided to give a direct answer. We know it's not because you are ashamed to show how childish you are being so, what is it? <<Could you in Thailand? THE ANSWER WHICH YOU ARE ASHAMED TO GIVE ME IS "NO, I COULDN'T". >> Correct, thereby proving my point, which is it's hard to own land ANYWHERE you are not a resident or citizen. You keep defining as "hard to own land" two completely different scenarios: 1) in Thailand where it is IMPOSSIBLE for a foreigner to own land. You define this situation as "hard to own land". 2) in Australia where a foreign tourist CAN own land provided he starts building his house within 1 year from the purchase. You define ALSO this situation as "hard to own land". You conclude from the above that Thailand is very similar to Australia regarding foreign land ownership because in both Thailand and Australia is "hard to own land". Don't you see something very wrong here? You can maintain your position that for a tourist is "hard to own land" in Australia (notwithstanding the fact that we have been talking all along about buying land for the purpose of building a house, so in effect there are NO LIMITATIONS WHATSOEVER in OZ on owning land for the purpose intented in this discussion) but you can in no way maintain that is ALSO "hard to own land" in a country, Thailand, where owning land is simply FORBIDDEN with no clauses, limitations or conditions. It's not "easy to own land", it's not "hard to own land", it is IMPOSSIBLE to own land in Thailand. You are playing with words and for your sake I hope you know it and you are just being a clown. <<I am not the one who is signing off his life savings to his wife. I am not the one who has to rely on his wife continuing to love him to have a roof on his head.>> Err - it's a weekend retreat sweet Fugjam, given I have a rather nice two story condo in Bangkok, Cent;s been there and a few others, not likely I have to rely upon the wife for that! I am relieved to know that you wouldn't be sleeping under a bridge. I just wonder, why don't you put also your condo in your wife's and your child's name? After all you fully trust your wife and, you know, in case "something happens" you will just be leaving it to your family... But really, all the above seems, so . . . . desperate and personal? Like picking up on my sign? "as simple" AS WHAT???? Foreign house ownership in Thailand is prohibited and in the western countries is allowed. Wake up and smell the bullshit you are spewing. Hmmm - To think I have lovely orchids in the house today as well. OK Fugjam, again, as YOU SAID, QUotING YOU!!!!! (Dam you make this SO easy! Thank yoU!) <<- a condo provided that it's newer than 6 months OR an older than 6 months condo provided that he invests at least 50% of the original property cost on improvements or additional construction - a house provided that it's newer than 6 months OR an older than 6 months house provided that he invests at least 50% of the original property cost on improvements or additional construction - land provided that he starts building his house within 12 months from the purchase >> End of the excellant research from Fujgam showing that you CANT just own a house or condo in Austrlia, the are rules and regulations to make it diffficult etc. ALSO Fijgam, please remember I can walk off a plane and buy a condo, no renovations required, older than 6 months old, AND I CAN'T BUY A HOUSE!!!! Hmmm - seems Australia is as restrictive to "Tourists" or in same cases more so, and in same cases less than Thailand, but RETRICTIONS EXIST. Something Fugjism you fail to undestand. But don;t get personal because I really like Italy too! And you please remember that "walking off a plane and buying a condo" is just about the only thing you are allowed to do in Thailand! Whether you are a tourist, a temporary resident or a permanent resident it doesn't matter, the only thing you can ever own in Thailand is a condo. The SOLE subcategory who suffer in Australia, compared to Thailand, are tourists who want to own a condo, because in OZ (while they can still own condos) they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand. <<The one blindly defending Thailand>> Sorry - I am also pro home ownership in Thailand, but I can;t change the laws so I'm just reorting here they are similar to restrictions elsewhere - again, thanks for the proof! I am damned curious to learn from you what the fuck are the "similar restrictions" to foreign house ownership which apply in Thailand seeing that there ain't no fucking foreign house ownership in Thailand at all! <<Firstly, the subject of this thread is ownership of land and anyone from tourists to permanent residents can own land in Australia while no one from tourists to permanent residents can own land in Thailand.>> No it's not, its Foriegners not being able to buy land - rather simple and all encompassing, no breaking into sub groups ok! So, can a foreigner own land in his name (under whatever clauses, limitations and conditions)? In Thailand: [YES] [NO] In Australia: [YES] [NO] <<Secondly, in which areas of house ownership is OZ worse than Thailand?>> The part where they can;t buy a old unit unless they spend 50% more doing it up would seem a lot worse than Thailand! Excuse me? Firstly, you are talking about the particular condition of tourists wanting to by a house (and you have just asked me not to break into sub groups!) and secondly I can't see how this can be worse than not being able to buy a house at all (which is the case in Thailand and NOT ONLY for tourists)! <<Anyone from tourists to permanent residents can own a house in Australia while no one from tourists to permanent residents can own a house in Thailand >> Correct, as long as it's their residence, no renting it now! Not true. This is true ONLY for temporary residents who want to buy an older than six months house not to use it as their residence but to rent it out. In this case they have to invest at least 50% of the original value of the house on further construction or renovation. <<No Nervous_Dog, the biggest and most serious complaint, which touches the area of the basic human rights, is from the guys with a Thai family/spouse who would want to buy AND OWN the house their family live in. >> Correct, as I pointed out to Cent, he and I are lucky, what about the single guy who wants to have a farm somewhere in Narkon Nowehere and can;t even do a dodgy get the wife to buy it deal? Hmmm . .. . methunks I already said that one lovie! Yes but you fail to recognize that foreigners in that position HAVE NOT this problem in Australia! On the contrary, you keep saying that foreigners have "similar problems" in both places! <<Let's see your case: living in Thailand, holding a Thai work permit, working in Thailand, paying taxes in Thailand, married to a Thai citizen, father of Thai citizens. Do you have permanent residency Nervous_Dog? >> I can have it next year if I want it, not sure I do, I'm thinking of moing to Italy, somewhere near Rimini perhaps! The short answer is that you haven't it. Moreover, what can you do in Thailand with a permanent residency permit besides wiping your ass with it? Can you absolutely freely buy and own condos with it, like in Australia? NO Can you absolutely freely buy and own houses with it, like in Australia? NO Can you absolutely freely buy and own land with it, like in Australia? NO Oh, wait... I remember now... You can avoid to be kicked out of the country in which you have been living, working and paying taxes and in which you have your wife and your children! I would get the perm., next year, if I were you (and if you really can). You really do like Australia, thinking of living there? Living? No. I'm rather thinking of buying some land and building a pretty dam palatial thai style neo resort holiday place for me to visit from time to time... And if you ever feel homesick, since you've told me you can't afford to buy an house in OZ, I can always rent it out to you... <<And in fact in Australia ANYONE can own land and a house. In Thailand NO ONE can own land and a house. >> Err . . that sounds so badly written it's almost like I wrote so I'll leave it in as a piece of nostalgia, I mean, it contradicts everything we've both written In Australia ANY FOREIGNER can own land and a house (in some cases, restrictions apply), in Thailand NO FOREIGNER can EVER own land and a house. How does it sound now? <<Don't worry, I am from Italy where even those OZ minor restrictions which bother you so much (sour grapes) don't apply.>> Why the sour grapes? your have had wine from Beaudeset I see? Awefull stuff, 'Cause despite the nonsense you're talking, you would love to have in Thailand the same "restrictions" that Thais have in OZ! <<The rest of the Western Europe, the North America and even your NZ neighbours are practically the same.>> Are they? I can buy land in Leichtenstien can I? How about doing some research of your own? <<Ciao bello. >> Thank you, all the girls say that! handsome Man! Not quite, in that context, the closer translation I can think of is "bye bye dude". <<FIGJAM (ex board member "pao") >> Does anyone care? "Proudly providing moral support to all the whores of bangkok, and a few tarts as well" Does anyone care? (besides your wife and children, that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Ahh Fagjism, I've been trapping around this for so long now it's almost boring so I'll just quote yourself one last time. <<are tourists who want to own a condo, because in OZ (while they can still own condos) they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand.>> Thank you for agreeing with me at last, you said earlier on that in no case was Australia more restrictive, now you admit that it is in certain case(s). Imagine that! Australia (Quoting you AGAIN) (Thanks by the way) "they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand" That's it, game over, you PROVED my point, that while we winge and moan about how vad Thailand is - WESTERN countries (in this case Australia) in YOUR WORDS NOT MINE "they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand." One more time "they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand" Is more restrictive! interesting! NOW - I am not saying either is correct - my point has been ALL ALONG, that while we bang ou heads over Thailand - Proudly cry out how the west is better, in fact sometimes (quoting you one more time cos it's such fun) "they are subjected to more restrictions than they are in Thailand." DOG - here troll, here troll, lovely little troll, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nervous_Dog said:Point I am making is we all complain (me too Fugjism) about the the Thai laws re home ownership, but I belive (10 minutes searching above) (Plus Fugjisms great reasearch) that many other "Western" countries also impose "unfair" restricitons. So vacation homes are regulated by local authorities in Finland (you leave us in the dark on HOW they are regulated, i.e. IF and WHAT restrictions they impose) and foreigners can't purchase property in border areas in Greece. Wow, impressive. It's evident how Finland and Greece are being as unfair as Thailand where there are no such things as foreign owned vacation homes and where foreigners can't purchase land and houses in ANY corner of the country... That said, your small research is factually wrong since in Greece (I wasn't bothered to check about Finland because the issue you have raised is really minor) EU nationals can freely buy property even in those legally designated "border areas" (in the majority of the cases, for example if they are buying a property as their residence). In the rest of the cases and for all the other nationalities, it is POSSIBLE to buy properties in border areas. They are just "required to submit all the relevant documents to the General Headquarters of the Ministry of Defense/Division B/Security Department/Counter Intelligence/Papagos Camp, Holargos. Tel. No. 00 30 1 65 52 205). The time required to complete the relevant procedure, in the event that the application is submitted to General Headquarters of the Ministry of Defense, is estimated to take three to four months from the day of receipt of the application. The applicant or the authorized lawyer will be notified of the decision." And from what I read on local expats mboards it is almost always granted. Consider the countries Greece share borders with and you will understand why it is "almost" and why such law exists in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Oh - by the way I did do a bit of indeoendant research, posted it back a page or so back, but you must have ver looked it, Finnish info was a bit dodgy, but curious to see if anyone knows more, Greek was very interesting, Foreign ownershis anywhere EXCEPT some very specific areas, Fagjism, how many times do I have to make my point, people here have claimed the "Western Countries" are all better and more open than Thailand, in fact very few are, italy, most European, USA Canada, UK IReland are, but I still haven;t got clear info on Iceland Greenland etc. Maybe you could help me some more please? DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchapstick Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Dear Doggie Finnish info was a bit dodgy Ah, so you proved one of my many useless and meandering points! You ignorant piece of Kwai dung. Still you do not appreciate my superior intellect, my rapier like wit, and my command of the use of puctuation!!!? I have to repay you in kind Aha, more points for me, K9 breath. I am clearly master of the universe! Oh I am sure of that, you must be well used to it by now Don't you just love the way I am able to bring up multiple quotations in the same thread. I am clearly a genius!#$@ WTF is this shit? This shit is that I am trying to bore everyone to tears by making repetitive, stoopid arguements, and resorting to mindless namecalling, you jism-swallowing bum-fornicating piece of camel doo doo!!&^%@#$ By now, you have all seen that I win!!! 100 points for me!!!! Oops, I hear my mommy calling. Time for my prune juice and nappy time. FIGJ .... errr, I mean rchapstick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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