Foriegners not being able to buy land.........

[Nervous_Dog]

<<I can almost picture you cuming all over the monitor in your wife's house... >>

 

The maid was most upset, I didn;t have any tissues and let it set there.

 

KS - I don;t mind the slightest Fagspam's personal insults in his arguements. When someone has to stoop that low then it just shows to everyone here what a lovely chap he is!

 

In Summary, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Iceland all have restricitons on Foreign ownership, so when we all stand up and proclaim "Thailand should learn from the West", maybe they did!

 

DOG - licking my balls, because I can

[Man at Work]

FIGJAM said:

 

And yes, this was my first contribution, as I do not have enough knowledge about the subject to activly participate. And If that is the case, I rather shut up.

So you feel you have enough knowledge on me instead?

 

 

Well I AM able to read and to judge what I see.

 

You might have a few points, but the way you present them, is not helping your cause.

 

Unless your cause ist to

 

MaW

[Guest]

Actually the law is very clear in this area. OH suggested going to the Thai Embassy; you can do so, but they should give you, and they are not authorized to give, legal advice. Same with an embassy of any country. Try getting legal advice for free from the US Embassy.

 

Baker & McKenzie, a well known international law firm, publishes a book on Thai law. It is available at Asia Books. You can buy a copy. Or, you can read this cut & paste I just took from advice from an equally well known law firm (who was not giving advice to me but another Farang). Here it is:

It is generally illegal foreigners to own land in Thailand, criminal penalities apply, and the law is enforced in this area. Section 86 of the Land Code provides that an alien cannot own own land, unless there is a treaty providing for his ownership of land. Thailand had such treaties with 16 countries, all of which expired on February 27, 1971. No treaties permitting aliens to acquire land in Thailand are currently in existence. Absent a special exception, a foreigner cannot own land, and violation of this aspect of the Thai Land Code can and does lead to imprisonment.

 

If a nature person acquires land in violation of the prohibitions on foreign ownership Section 111 provides that they liable for a fine or imprisonment not exceeding two years or both. In addition, Section 96 of the Land code provides that the Director-General of the Land Department also has the power to dispose of illegally acquired land. Prosecutions and involuntary disposals are now routine, particularly in Phuket and Surat Thani provinces.

 

Previously if a Thai woman was married to a foreigner, she was not allowed to buy land. Now as part of an effort to liberalize the law in accordance with the 1997 Constitution, a Thai woman married to a non-Thai can buy land, but only if her husband disavows an interest in the property in writing before the Land Department. But, if it is subsequently determined that the husband provided funds to buy the land, the husband is not only liable under Section 96 of the Land Code, but also liable for making a false statement to a government official. A husband will be deemed subject to Section 96 penalties (e.g., 2 years imprisonment) if, after acquisition of the land, he claims an interest in the property in, for example, divorce proceedings. Several foreigners were recently convicted of criminal charges on such grounds. All but one agreed to deportation in lieu of imprisonment. The Land Department transferred ownership of the land to their former wives. No compensation was allowed to the foreigner, and the foreigners had to compensate their divorced wives for legal fees incurred in the proceedings.

 

Nominee arrangements are also illegal. This may be carried out by incorporating a joint venture juristic person with the percentages of shareholding of 49% by aliens and 51% by Thais. Under these percentages, such juristic person may technically be considered under the law to be a Thai national and, as such, can appear as though it is entitled to own land. In reality, Thai shareholders in such juristic person hold shares for aliens by signing their names as nominal shareholders and executing an instrument of transfer of shares for retention by aliens as a security. Or they hold preference shares with reduced rights. Over the last two years there has been an increase in prosecutions for nominee arrangements; at least seven foreigners are now serving prison sentences for participating in such arrangements; their land has been sold by government auction (the proceeds going to the Land Department), and they will be deported at the end of their terms.

 

Exceptions

 

1. The Investment Promotion Act B.E. 2520 ? This allows foreigners to buy land if the Board of Investment grants a promotional certificate. (My comment: This is basically if you are going to build a factory.) the Board of Investment?s Notification No. 30/1989 also provides for promoted alien companies to own land for the construction of workers? living quarters although the land is not in the same compound of the land used as the factory site.

 

 

2. The Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act B.E. 2520 ? Allows foreigners to buy land on an industrial estate. An industrial estate is an area exclusively provided for the establishment of industrial factories, service business, trading or commercial enterprises. Such area also consists of living quarters and public utilities. Industrial estates are established for a purpose of development of domestic industries, and are under supervision of the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand (IEAT), a state enterprise under the Ministry of Industry. (My Comment: another exception for factories).

If someone can provide material with cites with specific provisions of Thai law that state otherwise, I'd love to see it. Until that time, I will continue to marvel at Farangs who have been duped into believing they can own land here or have their name on title here. It simply is not true - and look at the consequences if you screw up!

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:"blue"]Very good information Gadfly. I find your insight to be a welcome.

 

 

[color:"black"]Some have written that one should have a lawyer write up a contract leaving the property to the surviving spouse with one month to despose of the house. From what you wrote, would this contract be valid?

 

My next question if the spouse dies, I would say it would leave the surviving spouse with 1-3 weeks to dispose of the property. The first 1-2 weeks would leave the surviving spouse in a state of shock/mourning which would leave only 3 weeks or less to dispose of the property. So my question is: Can a falang sell property? And if a falang can sell property, how would the average falang go about do so? This might seem like a stupid question but even in falang land this task can be tasking. Is the process straight forward or is there many things a falang might overlook?

 

My last question is: Can a falang reside in a home with his spouse and have a contract drawn up in which he leases the property for 99 years from her or her heirs? If this can be done, I would think this could be the best way for a falang to 'own land'.

[Guest]

A lease is only good for a maximum of 30 years. And any lease for 3 years or more has to be registered to bind a subsequent owner of the property. In other words, if you don't register the lease, and the property owner sells the lease, you have no rights against the new owner for anything over the 3 year lease term. Because the maximum term of a lease is 30 years, you won't be able to register a lease for more than 30 years. In other words, anything longer than 30 years is based on "trusting the owner."

 

I think there is confusion about having your name on title with your Thai spouse because the law previously didn't allow Thais married to foreigners to buy property - full stop. Now, the law has been "liberalized" to allow a Thai woman married to a foreigner to buy property if the foreign spouse signs a statement disclaiming an interest in the property. I think this "liberalization" has been confused with sharing title with your Thai spouse. Actually, this liberalization makes it worse for the foreigner because he now has to disclaim any interest in the property and say he didn't provide the funds to buy the property. Again, you have to rely on trust.

 

Another smaller law firm has a website that summarizes Thai property law. It can be found here: Website of a Thai Law Firm on Property Law A few people here have suggested that if you are an American and qualify under the Amity Treaty, you can own land. Here is what this site has to say about that option:

I am an American who owns 100 per cent of a Thailand-registered company under the Amity Treaty. Am I able to use this Amity Treaty company to buy land or purchase property?

Unfortunately, an Amity Treaty company only allows Americans to transact in certain types of businesses. Under the Treaty, Americans can own a majority share in a Thai company but they are not granted the right to buy or purchase land in Thailand.

And, they also mention that the holding company route is risky:

Some foreigners hire Thai nationals to act as nominees of their company but this may be risky in the long run. These Thai nominees will become legal shareholders of the company and therefore, legally ow n the company. Even if there are ways of reducing shareholders' control in the company, it is still a risky approach to undertake for a foreigner.

 

Another disadvantage is the need to maintain regulatory compliance of the company. The law requires a Thailand-registered company to file annual balance sheets and to maintain a company address. Moreover, companies that are not operating may be de-listed. It would, therefore, be wise to use an active company to purchase land or buy property in Thailand.

Notice that the same theme that runs through all of this - trust. You need to "trust" someone else to protect your interest in the property since you cannot have title in your own name. This is not a property right; it is an incentive for fraud and corruption.

 

And even those who start out with the best of intentions can change. Many marriages start out fine, and then go bad because people change. This is true everywhere (what is the divorce rate now in the US?) This is a fact of human nature. And in Thailand, if you buy property in your Thai wife's name, and seven years from now things go sour, you're screwed.

 

What I find even more amazing is the number of foreigners who don't realize how tenuous their rights to property here really are. This confusion creates tremendous opportunities for cons and scams. None of this is good for Thailand.

 

Perhaps we should combine this thread with the nightlife thread: "BGs Faking the Big O". ::

[Guest]

Maybe a bad idea to revive this thread but here some arguments in favour of national ownership (not necessarily regarding land, and not necessarily applicable to Thailand though):

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/21/opinion/edkhanna.php

 

Prof Khana (from Harvard Business School) argues that national companies are more interested in developing infrastructure etc and rather ADD efficiency to the economy, compared to the multinationals.

 

No, I remain pro-globalization but not a fanatic and Khana's arguments might be considered.

[sickbuffalo]

One way that a foreigner can owe land is if its bequeathed to him/her in a will...

[pe7e]

I'm afraid not, they can only hold title untill it is sold and there's a strict time limit on that.

[Old Hippie]

Well, you are all wrong! I just bopught the Rama IV Bridge, and Nana Plaza And 1/2 of Soi Cowboy! Was reasonably priced as well!

[Guest]

A foreigner can own a house in Thailand! That is how he can get his nam on the Tabien Ban. he cannot own the land on which it is constructed however. He can lease the land on which his house is built. If that lease is with his spouse he can also tie that down with a will so that he inherits the land. Of course you do have a limited amount of time in which to dispose of the land. The lease would of course have to be registered at the local lands office, that should take all of 2-3 hours. There are plenty of arguements against doing things like this in Thailand, many of which are indeed valid. However if someone wants to buy a property then it can be done. Also in order to legitamise a company then the company can own the land and the director can build a house on that land and lease the land back from the company, that way the company has a function, earns money and has to pay tax. This is quite cumbersome and as always you have the potential for it all coming back at you as you are conriving to own land.

Many people use the alternative methods to bend the law and I really am of the opinion that the law does, to a certain extent, turn a blind eye to this as it encourages foreign investment. The one expression that you should keep in mind here as much as you would do in your own country is caveat emptor!