cavanami Posted October 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 "...do the jobs that USA citizens do not want to do..." This is a myth. Poor people will work if they have to. The trouble is, illeagals lower the wage structure, because they work for less, and live at a lower standard, they beat out the local poor people who would do these jobs, if welfare and illeagals didn't make it more profitable for them not to work...but don't get me/us started on this topic... Disagree. In my experience (which is real)...have a ranch, need fencing put up. Hire the local American. He stays on the job until his 1st check and never seen again. Do this 4 ~ 5 times with the American locals...then hire the Mexican...he is still there after three years of steady, reliable work. Another...American kids "joy riding" a horse. The horse fell down. Police there kicking the kids azz but no one knew how to get the horse up. Along comes xxx and Mr. mex, they immediately got the horse up, most likely saving the horse's life! Many of the Americans are playing video games and not learning the skills they need to work and survive! Same story all over the south. Americans do not want to do these jobs, so GWB, give them the work permit they need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Disagree 100%, but that is o.k. Pay a decent wage, people go to work, pay crap because an illeagal, (and we are talking about Illeagels here, NOT leagal immigrants) will work cheaper, then people lose interest in their job. Add a welfare system that rewards you for NOT working, and you have...well, what we have. Again, no issue with people comming here leagally. Documented workers who get leagal jobs, get leagal wages and benifits. Illeagals screw up the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Cav, "In my experience (which is real)...have a ranch, need fencing put up. Hire the local American. He stays on the job until his 1st check and never seen again." Maybe the 'American' after a week busting hump sees the check he gets after the first week and figures it just isn't worth it for the work he is providing. How much are we talking about per hour for doing the job? Minimum wages? Less? More? And by 'Mex' do you mean illegal or legal immigrant? Yeah, an illegal will work for less and let himself be taken advantage of 'because' he IS illegal and has no legal recourse. He has no papers and is illegal. He'll take whatever friggin' job he can to make money. He has little choice in the matter. An American citizen HAS choices, and can quit and find another job he feels pays what his services are worth (and what his bills are/cost of living). Although the likelyhood of the American to find a decent paying job when the illegals will work for less and are hired by the Americans offering the job is pretty slim. If the 'employers' did not have the option of hiring illegals for low wages they would have to increase the wages they pay and would probably have an easier time of hiring decent help that would stay in their employ for a longer period. The illegals (and even the legal immigrants) will work for less because they will settle for less due to either their lack of work papers, or in the case of the legal immigrants, due to the fact they live a stricter lifestyle and can get by on less (and there are quite a few reasons why they can and will do so compared to their American citizen bretheren). Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Good point, as long as people can hire illeagals and benifit from doing so, the stream of illeagals will not stop. The idea of just handing an illeagal a work permit is a joke, and makes full mockery of the system and those who followed the proper procedures to be here. Additionally, Illeagals in most cases pay no taxes, yet demand education for their kids, and health benifits. Many drive without license and or insurance and/or many commit identity fraud to get some sort of work permit/drivers license etc...I have no respect for these people, or the scumbags that hire them. As I said, they fuck up the system for the leagal American and immigrant workers. People who hire illeagals should be jailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 OH, Yep. It's called a 'living wage'. I don't agree though with the feds mandating a blanket 'nation wide' minimum wage. I do agree though with a percentage minimum wage that takes into account the cost of living in the areas a person lives and works. I disagreethough that 'welfare culture' has much now-a-days to do with this. At least in Massachusetts we have done quite a bit to end this crap. The problem is that many when they no longer can get welfare (which is supposed to be a way for people to get on their feet or back on their feet and into a decent paying job) cannot find a job that pays enough to pay the bills. One reason being because the illegals are taking jobs they could do, jobs that are paying much less than they should be paying. That, and the fact that money is being spent on pork barrel crap and to other countries and on war that should be being spent to educate the poor, subsidize the poor that do work, (in rent chits, education chits, food stamps for minimum wage earners with kids, building low cost housing, low interest home loans, etc., and the many other things we should be doing with this money.) Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Well, In California, and many places, you can lose your medical and housing and food stamps/payments if you work...trouble is the wage limit is so low, that you are seriously screwed for working, even for (in some cases) minimum wage...agree, the system is screwed, rewards should be given to those working but not earning enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 OH, "People who hire illeagals should be jailed." I agree. And they should be fined heavily, and the fines should go into a fund to help citizens who earn under a certain annual income to get education and other things they need to get ahead. The catch 22 in this is that many American businesses cannot compete when having to pay a decent wage. Well, it looks like they either need help from the government to compete (which is a waste of money I feel, as it just prolongs the matter where the business should just close and let those who can do the business do it) or they need to rethink the business that they are doing. Oh yeah, what's next? Condom sniffing dogs? Viagra sniffing dogs? Maybe some dogs to sniff out people who hire illegals? :smirk: Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 OH, "Well, In California, and many places, you can lose your medical and housing and food stamps/payments if you work..." Yep, which is the stupidest thing of all. It discourages those that want to work, and does nothing to help them get on their feet and even get ahead a little. It is one reason there should be a national BASIC health care system. If you make under a certain amount you can receive basic care for an affordable fee. The country is also in dire need of a lot more affordable housing for those making the least money. But hey, let's pay 24 million a year to Thailand so they can buy arms, while Toxin makes billions and doesn't have to pay any tax on it! "trouble is the wage limit is so low," Absolutely agree! "that you are seriously screwed for working...agree," It's a fucking disgrace, and the rules and laws are totally whacked in this at times. "the system is screwed, rewards should be given to those working but not earning enough." Exactly. If we can see this how come the pols can't see it and figure this shit out? Wanna be my vice president? (I'm the elder statesman! :smirk: ) OK, enough Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 ANyway, back to DVD sniffing dogs...I am against them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 OH, Well, are these dogs just for the general public of people entering the country? Like going for the suitcases of international passengers? Or are they going to be used in the freight customs areas looking for illegal DVD's being shipped in as freight? I can see and understand their use for incoming overseas freight customs, but not as passenger customs control. One could be very lucrative and illegal, the other is just citizens buying a bunch of DVD's cheaply while on holiday overseas for personal home use. Big difference it seems to me. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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