25yrs since Irish Hunger Strike

[Fidel]

I agree that it will take a long time... I'd also say generations, before people even begin to put what has happened behind them.

 

Even in the Republic, Protestants and Catholics have only really begun to mingle in my area in the past 15 years or so (I'm 29). And a lot of water has passed under the bridge since there was active conflict where I come from (over a hundred years).

 

Let's see how it plays out. Paisley met with Archbishop Sean Brady recently and by all accounts, the IRA has ceased all paramilitary activity.

 

The last time I was up in your part of the world things were certainly looking up. I met some great people from both communities and they seemed upbeat and were beginning to move on...

[ulsterman]

 

absolutely. belfast is fast becoming a very cosmopolitan city. the influx of foreign workers has rapidly begun. every weekend planes arrive with stag/hen parties from the mainland. foreign tourists are common place now. walk into any bar at the weekend and it's sometimes hard to hear a belfast accent!

 

i would be perfectly happy just to let the current situation to carry on. let the politicians keep meeting, talking, disagreeing, agreeing! for the normal bloke in the street life goes on. there's very little trouble now and belfast is booming. it's only when they decide to have elections people start thinking about things and that's when it all flares up again!

[Flashermac]

<< The current Pattani separatist movement is due to Pattani's refusal to recognize the validity of the Anglo decree of 1909. >>

 

The sultanate of Pattani was divided, to form Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat provinces of Thailand, and Kelantan province of Malaysia. Before that the entire sultanate had been tributary to the Thai monarch and sort of loosely tied to Siam. The majority of the people in the area didn't see much difference, and there is virtually no chance of restoring an independent Pattani as it once was -- since Malaysia isn't going to give anything up either! The seperatists are very small in number, though I imagine Mr T has added considerably to their supporters.

 

p.s. The three Malay provinces of Thailand complain that they are poorer than the rest of the country. Well, Kelantan happens to be one of the poorest parts of Malaysia too. So who is to blame?

 

Also, even most Thai writers agree that it was a good thing that the French imperialists annexed the Cambodian provinces that had been part of Siam. Otherwise, there would be constant friction there too.

 

 

 

[simie]

sinsin2, your original post was a load of nonsense and this one is just the same. And i think my knowledge of history is probably better than yours. As i have quite clearly stated in previous posts i've no time for people on either side of the sectarian divide who think it acceptable to go about murdering innocent people. I take it you feel you can condone these murderers because of something that may have happened in the past. Just the usual bigoted anti British nonsense. I take it then you would also condone for example the murder of innocent Americans in response to the deaths of civilians in Iraq?

Simie.

[texascity]

>you would also condone for example the murder of innocent Americans in response to the deaths of civilians in Iraq? <

 

boy .. is this a good place to get flamed / baned / & or ass whupped..

 

edit:

1st it needs to be noted that the US Neo-Cons (Rummy, Woffie, Dickie, Pearlie, Fiethie, Jeb Bush all signatories .. ) have a written / published plan for US world economic & societal domination through military power. Military power is designed for mass killing & mass destruction of assets.

 

Americans (brits, ozies, spanards, italians, Pols, .. ) choose to call murdered innocents collateral damage.

Americans & the coalition of the associated collateralizers choose to call the destruction of of the property & lively hood of innocents collateral damage

 

Americans choose to call the blockade of medical suppies & infrastructure (water / sewer) repair parts 'a economic blockade',

 

this murder of perhaps 1,000,000 via blockade was all part of a US sanctioned & detailed plan .. accurately detailed by current World Bank head Paul Wolfiwitz under Bush I.. it's in writing, with the expected collateral effects.

 

'accidently' killing via planned blockade .. or cluster bombs in civilian neighbor hoods ..

POed grunts killing randomly .. or 'oops 500# bombs' on civilian shelters ..

 

cluster bombs in civilian neighbor hoods is an especially good usage of collateral

 

hard to defend this INTENTIONAL (& stupid doesn't grant absolution) collateralization... hard to grant "king's X" .. these actions are simply not excusable ..

 

big enough to vote for / pay for war .. big enough to accept the collaterization of war.

seems, whats good for the collateralizing goose could be / should be good for the collateralizer's condoning ganders.

 

much as European colonization 'wars' (is cannons against spears a war or murder?), of the 18th & 19th century were collateralizing in the 3rd world ..

 

10,000,000 murdered in the Congo, "Oh, dear .. but it was collateral, so do not inconvenience us"

 

"oh dear, after we intentionally with plan & fore thought destroy their country / society / family they should dare inconvenience us"

"Our designated God is on our side .. & do not inconvenience us"

[texascity]

in case of doubt regarding neo-con policy or signatories see:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

 

"we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

 

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next."

 

this is the policy of America.

key words:

OUR PRINCIPALS = hegemony

INTERNATIONAL ORDER = colonialization

OUR = Biblical

 

21 centrury colonialization / hegemony .. not of a region but of the entire planet .. this is their stated goal.

 

resist or submit is the global question.

 

[sinsin2]

I take it then you would also condone for example the murder of innocent Americans in response to the deaths of civilians in Iraq?

No. I actually support the USA war.

But do You condone the death of innocent Iraqies because of 9//11,WMD , or securing oil supplies etc.

 

Simie,

You are trying to defend the British Empire...

without understanding Your own history.

You were taught history through the

perspective..."the sun never sets"

That does not equip You to debate politics/history.

 

Now You wonder how to stop Bradford seceding and London introducing Sharia Law...Why not if its their democratic wish.

 

If You but in a little effort,I would be happy to discuss some points with you.

 

[sinsin2]

i really don't care what people from outside of this country think. i really don't care about how n.ireland protestants are viewed in the rest of the world. i really don't care how the country of n.ireland came into existance. in much the same way people in the rest of the world don't seem to care that the majority of the population in "the occupied 6 counties" want to be british. this fact is usually left out of most peoples arguement for a united ireland. personally i think it's a pretty important point.

 

Ulsterman..I understand and can respect where you are coming from.I agree with you the war is over.

Now think about what you said and imagine being on the receving end for centuries.

 

Now..where is the united Ireland...???

All it took was equal rights, overseen by the EU and British/Irish goverments.

 

PS. Every 12th a Ghanian lodge used to come over.

Big Ian has a few branches there as well.

 

[ulsterman]

 

i understand where you're coming from but being totally honest, what happened over the last few hundred years i really have no interest in. i know it's quite a blinkered view but i'm only interested in what i've grown up with in my lifetime.

 

there isn't a unionist alive who would deny that many many things happened that were totally wrong in protestant controlled n.ireland.

 

i'm not really sure what point you're making about "all ireland".

 

the ghana lodge did indeed come over every 12th!! in fact, in 1990 (the 300yr anniversary) there were lodges from all parts of the globe. my personal memory is seeing the native american lodge in full traditional costume including head dress!!

 

 

[simie]

sinsin2, i'm afraid you've lost me? how am i defending the British empire? The point i've made in my posts is that i don't like people (from whatever side of the sectarian divide) going about murdering innocent people. And my contention that these acts cannot be justified my something that may have happened in the historical past. Thats not defending the British empire, but simply stating that we have to try and move forward and try and raise our standards. Every imperial power throughout history has committed acts we would not condone today. However i don't think we can judge actions in history by our present day morals.

Simie.