Julian2 Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 The "best" governments are the one's that make sure all it's citizens benefit from economic growth, not just helping big money to get a bigger slice of the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck6660 Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 The debate of "which is the best nation" is an effort in futility! the majority of folks would consider their nation as the "Best"...typical "home team" emotions and nationalistic pride. I watched a documentary that tackled the "best place to live" question. At the end of the show they looked at immigration stats. What nation do you think had the highest number of immigration requests and the lowest number of citizens requesting immigration to other nations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCorinthian Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 The "best" governments are the one's that make sure all it's citizens benefit from economic growth, not just helping big money to get a bigger slice of the pie. Is there one in existance now that does this effectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 No use discussing the 'best' democracy. Especially considering that the 3 democracies mentioned all have troops in Iraq. No brainer on the forms of government in the west compared to the middle east. bin Laden's ideas of a theocracy have failed. Look at pre invasion Afghanistan compared to secular Turkey. The ayatollahs of Iran had their own people being some of the most pro American moslems of the region for some time until our administration messed that up. After 911, Iranians were very supportive of the U.S. Would any of you trade our collective democracies for the corrupt governments of the Saudis, Egypt or any other middle east state? Is it any wonder that the two most successful countries in the region are democracies (Israel and Turkey). Okay, Kuwait and other places float on oil and the like and have small populations but even they have problems. My question is this. If America and the west leaves the region totally. Militarily, politically, economically, etc. would bin Laden and those likeminded continue to try and destroy the 'great satan'? If the answer is no, then fine, lets do it. What if the answer is yes? I say we still leave the region but my question is what should be done (by the west) if he still wants to continue the fight? A lot of you have this 'get out of Iraq and the region' mantra. Not that I'm disagreeing but what about the continued fight? And don't respond with a lot of 'its our own doing' and 'we created the monster' thing. Okay, agreed it is. But it isn't an opinion on what should be done going forward. Do we collectively submit to Islam then? What should be done if the goal is changed to destroying the western political system? What say ye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 I think the threat of militant Islam is overrated. It's being played by jihadis to recruit suicide bombers and it's being used by the Bushies as a scare tactic. I'm basically of the opinion that the West should stop poking the hornet's nest. 911 was a reaction to years of colonialism and perceived humiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCorinthian Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 My question is this. If America and the west leaves the region totally. Militarily, politically, economically, etc. would bin Laden and those likeminded continue to try and destroy the 'great satan'? I often wonder about that too. I wish we would just build a big dock out into the Persian Gulf and put up a sign saying, "Whoever fill's this tanker up with oil gets a bag of money for the going rate." Then back tankers up ever day or so. Let the people living here figure out who is going to fill it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Perhaps you're right. If the west just packed and left the region the people of the region would probably celebrate it as a great victory but it may make it harder to recruit anyone to 'take the fight to the west'. Also, if the west were to leave the region in every manner (politically, economically, militarily), there is no doubt that the plight of the people wouldn't get any better and more likely be worse. The focus would probably start going to the corrupt/incompetent leaders of the region. Israel will be isolated though but they have the bomb and no one is going in there militarily unless they want their capitals flattened as well as Mecca and Medina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck6660 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Perhaps you're right. If the west just packed and left the region the people of the region would probably celebrate it as a great victory but it may make it harder to recruit anyone to 'take the fight to the west'. Also, if the west were to leave the region in every manner (politically, economically, militarily), there is no doubt that the plight of the people wouldn't get any better and more likely be worse. The focus would probably start going to the corrupt/incompetent leaders of the region. Israel will be isolated though but they have the bomb and no one is going in there militarily unless they want their capitals flattened as well as Mecca and Medina. Personally I would like for the "Western Nations" to pack-up and leave the Middle East to the Arabs. There are two reasons which in IMHO will not permit this to happen: 1. OIL = $$.. the worlds economy runs on oil..all the naysayers who damn the the west for exploiting the Middle east for oil, are the same group who bitch at raising fuel prices. Imagine all the products we use daily which are oil based or transported by truck, boat, plane etc. 2. The Islamic radicals would not stop their attacks until the world recognises Islam as the only religion. The Bid Ladens in the world are warped in the same sense as was Hitler. My hope is that the next US administration leaves the Middle East and takes care of issue within their own borders...the Hell with everyone else!! As for Iraq...let the genocide begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 1. OIL = $$.. the worlds economy runs on oil..all the naysayers who damn the the west for exploiting the Middle east for oil, are the same group who bitch at raising fuel prices. Imagine all the products we use daily which are oil based or transported by truck, boat, plane etc. I think people in the Middle East are happy to sell oil. It's their major export. They just want a fair price. As for raising the price it's gone from $16 a barrel since before the invasion of Iraq to $76 a barrel today. Probably more like $100 if you include the extra security costs. I seem to remember Wolfowitz and his chums saying the price would go down after the Iraqis had finished throwing flowers and chocolate to the troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Thank God I'm not in uniform now. Serving in the Middle East these days is enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown. A curse on Bush for getting the US so deeply involved in the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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