His Majesty Speaks?

[beano]

Agreed, the situation's already bad enough without confusing people with facts.

[Central Scrutinizer]

TH,

 

"Letâ??s try real hard to keep a realist attitude about what Thaksinâ??s populist program really is, and it ainâ??t about helping poor people, its about making rich people richer and keeping the power to keep on doing so."

 

And where did I say anything different? Let's try real hard not to be condescending in the posts. The programs were there and they DID help the rural poor get 'something'. Pork barrel politics is rampant everywhere in the world. It is not just Thailand or Asia where this crap goes on. It goes on in the US, and in Europe as well. It IS why people vote for certain candidates, because they bring projects and jobs and money into their constituencies, and people see it and notice how it helps them and their local economies, infrastructure, schools, etc.

 

"its about making rich people richer and keeping the power to keep on doing so."

 

Sort of like Halliburton and Blackwater and all that maybe?

 

While the rich were and are getting richer off the populist schemes Taksin and TRT proposed and used, and off the pork barrel, the poor were getting something they were not getting before, were they not? As you say, these are good things, and they are. When you have squat to begin with you don't care if the bigshot fuckers are skimming off the top and making money off the programs, as at least 'you' are getting something that helps you and yours have a bit of a better life. That IS why people will vote for Taksin and his cronies and puppets. They get something, whereas before they got nothing much at all from the Dems and others who mainly catered to the BKK middle classes and other larger cities middle classes. By the way, before Taksin the Dems were pretty much the party of choice in my wife's Isaan village.

 

The expression I used to hear a lot was that Taksin 'giin baht'. He 'eats money'. He was and is a greedy bastard, along with all his TRT cronies, and everyone knows it, including most of the villagers voting for him and his people. The rural Thais have a 'realist attitude about what Thaksinâ??s populist program really is' (as do I). It benefitted them, and that is the reality of it. These rural folk are very realistic and pragmatic. They have to be. They can see that the village headman and his family get the choicest cuts of the pie as well. They know pols families and friends are getting the jobs/work paid for with this money, and know people are getting kickbacks and that their businesses prosper. They see the fruit of this in front of their faces day in and day out. They aren't blind. Of course they don't like it and it causes resentments, but what can they do? They have no power themselves, so they take what they can get. That is the reality of it. It's better than nothing. And they keep voting in the theiving bastards exactly for this reason, something is better than nothing.

 

And also, do you think all these things TRT and Taksin did were not being done for the middle classes rather than the poor by the other pols and parties? Of course it is and was being done. Same thing, just different recipients really, and that is what pissed off the middle class and elite of Bangkok and other more affluent areas.

 

Does it suck? Of course it does, but when you have no power really to change it you work within your reality. And most people see that fighting it, fighting the corruption and making waves, usually hurts them and their family... so they don't make waves. All the Thai bigwigs know this and rely on this. It is the status quo here much of the time.

 

So, as I said, I don't like Taksin/TRT/PPP, nor do I like the PAD bullshitters who have their own agendas (many of whom are corrupt themselves, arrogant, elitist, and are not at all democratic), the top people I am talking about here mainly. I'd love to see a truly democratically elected government get in that cares for and helps all the people of Thailand (even while helping themselves - as that seems to be something that will be very hard to change here - it has taken centuries to address this in the west, and it still is and can be a problem). But, I cannot blame the rural Thais for electing over and over the one party that they prospered somewhat under. It is very easy to see for anyone with eyes and a brain why they do vote for them. (Yeah, that is somewhat condescending. )

 

As said, JMHO and thoughts on all this. Yours may differ.

[Guest lazyphil]

so what i gather is rural thais are astute enough to realise taksin helps them despite his greedy motives (like you said goes on everywhere) and dont need patronising 'elites' in the big smoke speaking up/educating for them and making a huge mess of things in a very undemocratic way.

[CTO]

Well said Cent - yes LP

[whitelotuslane]

 

And one more thing, in case anyone missed the bloody obvious:

 

ThaiHome wrote: "What you saw was pure pork barrel politics."

 

While not everyone likes this, it is quite *OKAY* to do this in a democracy. Yes politicians the world over promise things, propose populist measures and god knows what else. That's what politicians *DO*. This is what makes democracy imperfect. Nobody disputes this.

 

What people dispute is that there are non-democratic alternatives to governance that work better.

 

Heck, I even AGREE with many of the flaws you find with Thaksin but this is not about Thaksin, it's about a system of governing the country.

 

I wish more people would get over their obsession with Thaksin, while overlooking the big fat yellow & blue elephant in the room that's stifling any chance this country has to develop and mature a democracy.

[CTO]

Save it - their blind anger at Thaksin leads them into supporting the devil.

[Dumsoda]

SD -- proudly arrogant & elite

 

...Hmmmm Tiger....I was wondering where my last 2 ltrs of gai nuang went....

 

...Now I know !!!!...it's obvious that U drank them.....

Amazingly...I'm sober........

 

Can't understand why ur trying to burn bridges?????

 

 

.....arrogant & elite.....or delusional...and in Denial...????

 

Get a grip on it...... and I don't mean....

 

...and this is from a Friend....OK????

 

DC

 

[drogon]

AFP: His Majesty the King is reported as suffering and will therefore not pronounce the allocution programmed????

 

BBC confirms: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7764552.stm

[bkkman]

There are two kinds of injustice perpetrated upon the rural poor.

 

First is the lack of resources to live at a decent standard. Taksin helped with that.

 

But the second is the more important form of justice and that is social mobility which rewards effort and education. This is what is really lacking and what will keep the poor where they are. Sons and daughters condemned to repeat or barely rise above their parents fate.

 

Education, the path up the ladder. A friend of mine has a son who is an exemplary student. he has recieved so many awards, it filled a room at his HS. But he was not even offered student loans, much less scholarships. Were it not for the farang husband he would be condemed to 5000b/mo work.

In the West, he would be flooded with Ivy League schools offering scholarships.

 

Do you think the PAD want the poor to have social mobility ? Status quo is what they want.

 

It is a disgrace and it will keep Thailand semi 3rd world for at least one more generation.

Sad ......

 

 

[drogon]

Mr T helped selectively -> strange that the 3 Thai farmers families I know well never saw one satang from what Mr T supposedly gave..

 

I repeatedly asked for figures/studies showing wht Mr T did really but except the usual "he helped the poors" I never saw any proofs.

 

Girlfriend comes from a poor farmers family -> she had to work full-time to fund her university studies so it shows it is possible and she didn't have a farang to fund her...

 

Neither PAD nor Mr T want the poors to have social mobility and Mr T did nothing in this respect

 

-> most of my girlfriend's colleagues come from rural families and none of them ever received a student loan for their uni studies under the Mr T era....