Sad losers wet weekend

[CTO]

Married 10 years . . . . how long have you been married - any reason we should know why you suddenly discussing 7 year itch?

[playtheblues]

This is a rather clinical way of looking at her and not the perspective i would spontaneously take on anybody whom I know, like or, love. I don't base my relations with other people on clinical psychology - this said with all respect for your professional competence, of course. In clinical psycho-terms I am probably a delusional old neurotic-narcistic fool but frankly that is not the view of myself - interesting though it might be - that i find the most relevant when I look my own personality in the mirror.

 

This girl is an actress, as you say, and that is what I and those Japanese like about her. The Japanese tend to seek stimuli to their imagination for imagination's own sake, while a Westerner sees imagination in a functional way - it should lead to something real. And if it doesn't the actress (working girl) is an evil, manipulative bitch. But the Japanese can spend tons of yen just sitting with a beautiful hostess who ignite their imagination of love and beauty - knowing all the time that it is a fantasy game and will not lead to anything substantial. This is exactly what "my" girl instinctively has understood and use to her business advantage. If she is an evil, manipulative bitch, then any Japanese club hostess is that to - and maybe even the geishas who work in the realm of imagination (however non-sex).

 

Said so much, again with all due respect, I am not going to develop this discussion further because I feel that it is venturing into very dark and negative territory, which is totally contradicting my own, bright, jazzy (my handle), life-imitates-art outlook on life here in Bangkok and my relations with its equally jazzy, street-smart, lovely women. I haven't managed to make this my perspective clear, but frankly, does anybody care? I didn't think so.

 

I stick with the advise from the great Goethe (at 73 hopelessly in love with this 17 year old girl, who "fortunately had the good sense to decline his marriage proposal"):

 

"Avoid the Negative like the pest!"

 

or in the Thai version:

 

"Khit booak ( think positive, was that right, old hands?)

 

Or in the German alpinist version:

 

"Zu fallen is ein sehr angenehmes Gefuel, so lange wie es dauert" (falling is a very pleasant sensation as long as it lasts).

 

The last one summarizing quite well this my strange "love affair"

amid the monsoon torrents and street fightings in this endlessly

exciting theater stage which is called the city of Angels.

[HeartThais]

This girl is an actress, as you say, and that is what I and those Japanese like about her. The Japanese tend to seek stimuli to their imagination for imagination's own sake, while a Westerner sees imagination in a functional way - it should lead to something real.

 

I have a simpler explanation. Asian men tend to be misogynists and elitist by western standards. They have no problem with viewing whores as playthings. Very few of the older generation would look at even their own wife as their equal. These attitudes are changing. I'd not be surprised if in 30 years, the western and eastern attitudes towards whores converges.

 

Also in contrast, western cultures have a very different attitude about background and aspiration. My asian father is very reluctant to talk about his humble origins even though he's achieved financial success in his life. This is very typical of an asian mindset whereas a western guy might be very proud to talk about his rags to riches story. That's why a typical asian man would never consider marrying a an ex-whore whereas a western guy might be able to rationalize it.

[playtheblues]

Cent, thanks for the clarification, but scenarios like those are so far away from my own life experience here in Bangkok - going back 25 years - that they might as well have happened on another planet. Remember there are some very strange and disturbed farangs relating to some very strange and disturbed girls here in Bangkok, with whom we have nothing in common whatsoever.

 

I lead and have always lead a perfectly civilized life here in Bangkok, without the slightest incidence of violence or criminality.

 

Btw I see that I never really adressed your comments, some of them very relevant, though not necessarily to my specific case.

But we all have had enough of this issue, haven't we (see my post above)?

[Central Scrutinizer]

ptb,

 

Hey, thanks for posting and explaining some of your experiences and views in the thread. I found some of this interesting, and seeing as this relationship forum has been dead lately I decided to at least address some of what I read here to see if we could have a discussion and get some others' input and opinions as well. It can be fun.

 

Always a pleasure to read your posts. Civil, intelligent, interesting and pleasant to chat with you in the forums. Thanks.

 

Have fun.

 

Cent

 

p.s. "Avoid the negative." Yes, I like that one, and try my best to avoid the worst of it (and them). I don't enjoy the feeling of falling though. Scares the bejesus out of me, maybe because I know in my mind eventually I have to hit the bottom, and it can hurt like hell.

[playtheblues]

"They have no problem with viewing whores as playthings"

 

This is certainly true about Asians, but I think that it's another issue. Those Japanese just sitting and drinking and making conversations with a beautiful hostess just for evoking their imagination - and for nothing more - do it for the same reasons that they go to a theater performance or a concert.

 

My own observation is that the Japanese differ a lot from other Asians in many respects - and in fact differ from everybody else on the planet.

[playtheblues]

Thanks Cent, the fun is mutual. Discussions might be more brutal next time, just for the spice!

 

 

Btw, you should continue sharing your observations from upcountry. Very interesting first hand reports from an underreported area in Thailand!

[..]

They have no problem with viewing whores as playthings...I'd not be surprised if in 30 years, the western and eastern attitudes towards whores converges.

That would be a very sad thing. Our Eastern brothers get that the whore plays a very significant role in society. Much to the benefit of regular women. And as such, they do not look down on them as do the Western folks (oh ya they look down, but not *nearly* as much).

 

PtB sez: "My own observation is that the Japanese differ a lot from other Asians in many respects - and in fact differ from everybody else on the planet. "

 

Yup indeed. But they are also the same in more ways than Westerners. Which is why I love Japan and it's inhabitants so...

 

Cheers,

SD

[HeartThais]

SD, I think they look down on them in different ways. First off, I'm not including street-walkers in the comparison. By whores, I'm talking about the western/eastern equivalent of a hostess girl.

 

I think of a typical western attitude to whores involving en element of pity. I think of an eastern attitude being more like 'she's nothing but a tool.' At some level, I think Asians dehumanize the working girls to a greater extent than westerners.

 

One of my cousins on the Japanese side of the family married a hostess girl. Incredible scandal. He has been disowned by the parents. No one ever uses her name. She's always referred to as the hostess girl or that-kind-of-woman.

 

The question of why do Asians sit around and talk to hostesses? I think it's part of the DNA of the business culture. Hostess bars are plentiful in Asia. Typically, men go in groups and the oldest or most senior guy picks up the tab. He does not, however, pick up the tab for the girls you take home. Also, Asians are less individualistic. If the most senior guy takes home a girl then it is far likelier for the other guys to take one too. It would be very unlikely for a junior guy to be the only one to take a girl home. The idea that their sexual needs are fulfilled by a richer fantasy life/imagination doesn't ring true to me (Asian guy).

[..]

Fair enough, but is there *really* a Western comparison to an Asian "hostess bar" girl? I can't think of any, but then again I have not lived (more than a short time) in the West for donkey's years.

 

You story about the J-hostess girl rings true tho', from my family. But all that was needed to start that was the fact that me pa did not go to church every week, but still married ma. Same shunning tho'.

 

EDIT -- Why hostess girls? Just speaking for me, it is easy to lose oneself in a "dating fantasy" without doing anything "wrong" re: your wife/SO. Most men, myself included, like the chase, and knowing you can bag the hot chick, better than actually doing it (cuz it never lives up to expectations). Hostess bars let you have your cake and eat it too (i.e., pretend you got the hot chick, without being arsed to actually do it LOL!).

 

Cheers,

SD