Bangkoktraveler Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 "...it is better to bankrupt individuals than bankrupt the country, no?..." As long as you are one of the individuals who goes bankrupt first, yes. As for being reliant on the federal government...thanks to them, and their fucked up laws, I am now just that. Feds allowed my company to NOT contribute to the pension fund when they had the money, plan went bunk...lost the accrued amount, will get 40% at age 65, also lost retirement medical...so now, I am dependent on the PBGC ("hired" by the government) to pay my pension, what's left of it, and SSI (thanks tax payers) and Medicare, assuming it is still around...So I will be one of those "deadbeats" living off your tax money...my tax money as well...you call it socialism, I call it getting shit pay from the assholes who fucked it up. A growing number of people in the country are facing a similar situation. Hence, the current system just isn't working. As Steve said, all ears on alternative plans...but as I said, I just don't hear them being hyped... Old Hippie, you got to start wearing the Conservatives' new shoulder patch. It is not a hammer and sickle but a hammer and a block of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If it is the opposing party's plan, some people will be against it no matter what. Sore loser's who have no real alternative plan themselve's, yet try their damnedest to obstruct anything the opposing party suggests and tires to fix the problems (massive problems) left by their own inept party leader's who the majority of the nation kicked out in the last elections because THEY ONLY ADDED TO THE PROBLEMS AND HAD NO SOLUTIONS. Still waiting to hear the conservative solutions proposed to SOLVE these problems. Other countries around the world have found solutions to healthcare for their citizens that works for them. America prides itself as being the leader in health care (if you can afford it) and being the richest nation in the world. Yet, cannot seem to get this done. It is quite obvious to many that there is a problem and things need to change and this needs a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 You hit it spot on, Cent. The amount of brainwashing that has happened in the US is disheartening. Nice people actually believe the rubbish that fox 'news' spouts. The ironic thing is that, while these people see themselves as patriotic Americans, they've actually let an Australian businessman take control of the country. It's so ludicrous, I could cry. There was a coup in the US, and nobody noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If it is the opposing party's plan, some people will be against it no matter what. Sore loser's who have no real alternative plan themselve's, yet try their damnedest to obstruct anything the opposing party suggests and tires to fix the problems (massive problems) left by their own inept party leader's who the majority of the nation kicked out in the last elections because THEY ONLY ADDED TO THE PROBLEMS AND HAD NO SOLUTIONS. Still waiting to hear the conservative solutions proposed to SOLVE these problems. Other countries around the world have found solutions to healthcare for their citizens that works for them. America prides itself as being the leader in health care (if you can afford it) and being the richest nation in the world. Yet, cannot seem to get this done. It is quite obvious to many that there is a problem and things need to change and this needs a solution. Conservatives say [color:red]"A gee, we don't have any money...... we pissed it down the toilet over two wars..... The only healthcare we can afford is the healthcare we gave to the Iraqis...... Too bad, maybe next time. Oh by the way, do you need an extra block of salt?"[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Isn't it interesting that the people who oppose national health care invariably already have health care of some sort, quite often provided by the government? p.s. I do not like the Dems' current proposals, but something has to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyinEwa/Perv Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 It's last on the list for peaceful nations but we could move there and get healthcare when we got shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Isn't it interesting that the people who oppose national health care invariably already have health care of some sort, quite often provided by the government? p.s. I do not like the Dems' current proposals, but something has to be done. So true. I figure if we revolt and make waves we might get some [color:red]'Freedom and Democracy'[/color] along with prepaid health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Someone mentioned that a high % rate are very satisfied/satisfied with their insurance..I just don't believe in that they understood the questions or the surveyor manipulated the data to reach their results.. No one is happy with insurance as it is the MAIN problem as why health care costs so much. Third party payments don't work and to a lesser extent pre-paid health care. It is not the fault of the pre-paid comapanies like Kaiser (who the naysayers labelled as socialized medicine in the 1970's).. While pre-paid medicine has the correct incentives, the problem is so many people have their hands in the healthcare dollar which has so little to do with actual care to the patient. Kaiser has been forced to raise monthly rates every year because of the immense cost of doing business. In essence, Kaiser does funtion as a private insurance company and many deem HMOs, PPOs and IPA as the answer to deal with esculating fee for service and traditional insurance companies. Both are increasing completely out of control.. These really never worked as their premiums costs continuaed to rise every single year. Remember, most HMO came in existence under the HMO Act of 1973 (Kaiser in 1946) so they have been around for a long time in trying to get a handle on things. Obviously, they have not worked because private capitalism just doesn't work for healthcare due to unbelievable greed pure and simple... Coverage is the easy one to resolve; affordability might be something we not see in our lifetime. In my opinion, it is fixable but self-interest of so many will not allow their way of life to be threatened... I usually believe in negotiations, compromise, win-win and all that but with US health care we having been trying this since post WW II without any real cost containment success.. It is time to give big brother a comprehensive program and let the consumer choose if they wish to remain with their private insurance/existing system or the new gov managed one paid for by all tax-paying citizens regardless of whether you join or not join - just like we do now for many public programs and services... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 It is time to give big brother a comprehensive program and let the consumer choose if they wish to remain with their private insurance/existing system or the new gov managed one paid for by all tax-paying citizens regardless of whether you join or not join - just like we do now for many public programs and services... CB Isn't that akin to what we've done with 40 years of Medicare, Medicaid, and about 6 years of the drug benefits under Federal auspices? Medicare is running out of money, states are are burdened with more and more Medicaid demands, and the drug benefit program is costing 3 times as much as projected. And you think we'd get a "deal" with a Federal program that will cut costs? Oh, my ! (I got some leads on swamp land in Florida for ya and an email from some place in Nigeria that will set you up for life. ) HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Expat, "The amount of brainwashing that has happened in the US is disheartening." The amount of people who seem so easily susceptable to this brainwashing is even more disheartening. It is incredible really that so many are that easily led by the nose and by their emotions. They are being played with by the pundits for the right/Repubs. They are rubes. The past decade the media and government has cried about how few people are going into the health fields as doctors and nurses. Yet the gov wastes money in wars that are not necessary, and on giving our hard earned tax dollars to non-US citizens around the globe. How easy to take that money to help our own it would be. Many, many citizens, young people, could use those wasted dollars to go to school to become the nurses and doctors we need. Plenty of smart American kids can't go to school/uni who could easily be trained to take these jobs rather than farm them out to immigrants we import to take these jobs. (Fuck, most of the doctors I have seen the past decade or more, my father was seeing when ill, and my mother sees now, are now Indians! Immigrants who got their green cards due to their having the skills and schooling they received overseas where they came from. Nothing against Indians, but where the hell are all the Americans that used to do these jobs?) A fraction of the money wasted on the Iraqi war could pay for it all and more. If we must borrow trillions from the Chinese at least we could spend it on our own citizens on healthcare, schooling, and infrastructure, and on things that would benefit all American citizens, rather than the corporate elite and the other countries we spend it on, and the wars and police actions and all the other non-essential things it is wasted on. We do not spend it on promoting democracy around the globe. We spend it on helping the corporate hegemony that controls our government and country at the expense of our own citizens and the rest of the poor and disadvantaged of the world. It is disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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