Hugh_Hoy Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Now the Nazi US gov is trying to demand that all people buy health insurance...WTF...many do NOT have the $$$ to buy health insurance...WTF are these politicians smoking???... Cav...some people just don't get it. The country is floating in debt already with no end in sight. The reasons are not relevant. Yet the liberals in our country and on this board, as libs tend to do, ignore such things and spend money that isn't there...as long as it's for "social" programs that usually benefit only a handful of the citizenry. (Note that the Republicans of this century tend to do the same, although on a much, much smaller scale and not on Marxist programs.) Anyway, you are correct. So you fine somebody for not having health insurance. How will that be enforced? Big Brother going to come to your house and demand to see a current insurance card? How will the fines be collected? What if you've just lost your job and cannot make payments on an insurance premium? How many millions will ignore the requirement and take their chances or commit some kind of fraud? (Let's be real, only a fraction of Medical/Medicaid fraud is detected and even less prosecuted with monies being recovered. No reason to believe that a massive new program would not result in the same.) Talk about an inter-galactic clusterfuck! You point out that Sen. Max Bacus is floating a balloon which calls for levying a "fee" on private insurance companies. This "fee" would be used to help pay for the government option (whatever form that might take). Come on Max. Call it what it is. It's a friggin' TAX. The result would be this for the person who prefers to stay with a private insurance company: higher premiums to pay this fee and to pay for those who could join their insurer with expensive pre-existing conditions; higher taxes to pay for a new and expanded national health care program. These taxes are just waiting to be raised by the liberal Demoncrats. For openers, income taxes will be reverted to the levels before the so-called "Bush Tax Cut"; capital gains taxes will be raised; estate taxes will be increased (it's really a "death tax"); let's not forget the "cap and trade" tax that commie-liberal Demoncrats are salivating over (next on the liberals agenda). The effects of this initiative that the liberals have been creating will reverberate throughout our society in ways that few realize. Small businesses will close, freedom of choice will be further eroded, more jobs will go to China, India, Malaysia where employers are not saddled with more "obligations" and taxes. That means few wage earners to pay taxes...and the need for the country to keep borrowing. This national health care issue didn't arrive on our doorstep overnight. But the liberal wing of the Demoncrat Party and the Kremlin West want to solve the entire issue in a few short months. It's time to scrap these 1100+-page bills and start over. Take some baby steps and see how it goes. Perhaps try a program on a few select counties or a state or two. See how it works. Prototypes are used all of the time before a new product or service or program is introduced. I'd offer up Marin and San Francisco counties as "ground zero" for trying out the Demoncrats plans. Let the libs "walk the talk". Watch how many companies move south on the peninsula or across the bay. 555555555555 For KK (and others)...how are these for ideas: prohibit food stamps from being used for "unhealthy foods" that contribute to problems like diabetes? How about reducing unemployment benefits for those who have lost their jobs and their insurance? Instead of paying unemployment benefits for 16-18 months, cap the maximum to 12 months and no longer. Use the money saved to provide a "health card" for that 12-month period of time. If somebody can't find some kind of job in 12 months, they are not really trying or don't want to work. Polls (pick some) show an increasingly skeptical and distrustful US citizenry when it comes to the health care issue. You and (I'd venture) most members of Thai360 are really in the minority in your thinking. Sure, it's easy to take shots at programs created by others. Easier than coming up with your own plan. I don't have time to waste creating my own "plan" for no reason. I take shots at Pelosi, Reid, and Borat cuz it's fun and it's deserved. You libs had your fun with GWB. Shoe is now on the other foot. Suck it up, man. Take the bashing your party and The One have earned. In just 8 short months, your pals have tripled the deficit, fumbled the multi-billion dollar "stimulus bill", and wasted 3 billion on a "cash for clunkers" debacle. A bunch of fuckwits, they are. Think Libertarian next time. Read up on it and get educated about the party. I think you'd appreciate many of that party's values. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Very nice HH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 It is time to give big brother a comprehensive program and let the consumer choose if they wish to remain with their private insurance/existing system or the new gov managed one paid for by all tax-paying citizens regardless of whether you join or not join - just like we do now for many public programs and services... CB Isn't that akin to what we've done with 40 years of Medicare' date=' Medicaid, and about 6 years of the drug benefits under Federal auspices? [b'] [color:red]Medicare is running out of money[/color],[/b] states are are burdened with more and more Medicaid demands, and the drug benefit program is costing 3 times as much as projected. And you think we'd get a "deal" with a Federal program that will cut costs? Oh, my ! (I got some leads on swamp land in Florida for ya and an email from some place in Nigeria that will set you up for life. ) HH Medicare and Social Security are both running deeply in the black. Part of the money from Medicare and Social Security are used toward balancing the budget! The problem with both of these programs is not the money that has been deposited into both of these programs, but that the money was used to balance the budget - something it was never intended to be used for. The greatest disgrace is the ponzi scheme the government has been operating and then on top of that, the government has provided false information that both of these programs are running out of money. When the general public finds out how the government has manipulated both of these programs, we might as well say [color:red]'toast'[/color]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, you're right for once. :content: Congrats. :thumbup: But it is still running out of money for the reason you noted; and for the fact that the aging population is placing more and more demand on these programs. Social Security is a scam for the most part. High wage earners will never get more than a fraction of their contributions and will pay taxes on the benefits as well. As I've noted before, if citizens invested their contributions to SS, rather than contributed to the program, they'd probably reap five to ten times the return. And the above doesn't even touch the iceberg called Supplemental Social Security fraud. :onfire: HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Based on their performance record, I don't really trust the federal government to run anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 You hit it spot on, Cent. The amount of brainwashing that has happened in the US is disheartening. Nice people actually believe the rubbish that fox 'news' spouts. The ironic thing is that, while these people see themselves as patriotic Americans, they've actually let an Australian businessman take control of the country. It's so ludicrous, I could cry. There was a coup in the US, and nobody noticed. Great post! Fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Now the Nazi US gov is trying to demand that all people buy health insurance...WTF...many do NOT have the $$$ to buy health insurance...WTF are these politicians smoking???... Cav...some people just don't get it. The country is floating in debt already with no end in sight. The reasons are not relevant. Yet the liberals in our country and on this board' date=' as libs tend to do, ignore such things and spend money that isn't there...as long as it's for "social" programs that usually benefit only a handful of the citizenry. (Note that the Republicans of this century tend to do the same, although on a much, much smaller scale and not on Marxist programs.) Anyway, you are correct. So you fine somebody for not having health insurance. How will that be enforced? Big Brother going to come to your house and demand to see a current insurance card? How will the fines be collected? What if you've just lost your job and cannot make payments on an insurance premium? How many millions will ignore the requirement and take their chances or commit some kind of fraud? (Let's be real, only a fraction of Medical/Medicaid fraud is detected and even less prosecuted with monies being recovered. No reason to believe that a massive new program would not result in the same.) Talk about an inter-galactic clusterfuck! You point out that Sen. Max Bacus is floating a balloon which calls for levying a "fee" on private insurance companies. This "fee" would be used to help pay for the government option (whatever form that might take). Come on Max. Call it what it is. It's a friggin' TAX. The result would be this for the person who prefers to stay with a private insurance company: higher premiums to pay this fee and to pay for those who could join their insurer with expensive pre-existing conditions; higher taxes to pay for a new and expanded national health care program. These taxes are just waiting to be raised by the liberal Demoncrats. For openers, income taxes will be reverted to the levels before the so-called "Bush Tax Cut"; capital gains taxes will be raised; estate taxes will be increased (it's really a "death tax"); let's not forget the "cap and trade" tax that commie-liberal Demoncrats are salivating over (next on the liberals agenda). The effects of this initiative that the liberals have been creating will reverberate throughout our society in ways that few realize. Small businesses will close, freedom of choice will be further eroded, more jobs will go to China, India, Malaysia where employers are not saddled with more "obligations" and taxes. That means few wage earners to pay taxes...and the need for the country to keep borrowing. This national health care issue didn't arrive on our doorstep overnight. But the liberal wing of the Demoncrat Party and the Kremlin West want to solve the entire issue in a few short months. It's time to scrap these 1100+-page bills and start over. Take some baby steps and see how it goes. Perhaps try a program on a few select counties or a state or two. See how it works. Prototypes are used all of the time before a new product or service or program is introduced. I'd offer up Marin and San Francisco counties as "ground zero" for trying out the Demoncrats plans. Let the libs "walk the talk". Watch how many companies move south on the peninsula or across the bay. 555555555555 For KK (and others)...how are these for ideas: prohibit food stamps from being used for "unhealthy foods" that contribute to problems like diabetes? How about reducing unemployment benefits for those who have lost their jobs and their insurance? Instead of paying unemployment benefits for 16-18 months, cap the maximum to 12 months and no longer. Use the money saved to provide a "health card" for that 12-month period of time. If somebody can't find some kind of job in 12 months, they are not really trying or don't want to work. Polls (pick some) show an increasingly skeptical and distrustful US citizenry when it comes to the health care issue. You and (I'd venture) most members of Thai360 are really in the minority in your thinking. Sure, it's easy to take shots at programs created by others. Easier than coming up with your own plan. I don't have time to waste creating my own "plan" for no reason. I take shots at Pelosi, Reid, and Borat cuz it's fun and it's deserved. You libs had your fun with GWB. Shoe is now on the other foot. Suck it up, man. Take the bashing your party and The One have earned. In just 8 short months, your pals have tripled the deficit, fumbled the multi-billion dollar "stimulus bill", and wasted 3 billion on a "cash for clunkers" debacle. A bunch of fuckwits, they are. Think Libertarian next time. Read up on it and get educated about the party. I think you'd appreciate many of that party's values. HH [/quote'] Just how many generalisations in one post? Gotta be a record. FYI, I don't resemble the "lib" you describe. I'm fiscally conservative. I don't agree with budgetary deficits. I saw the huge borrowing the US has undertaken as a poor choice of policy, but it was designed as a stimulus plan AND seems to be working. I would remind you that Bush had the record for the largest deficit creation previously, but why let facts get in the way of your opinions....... I'm also responsibility based on all aspects of behaviour. I'm very much of the opinion that if you can pay, you should pay. So health insurance should exist for those that earn the wages....but for those in poverty or lower earnings there should be some sort reasonable quality alternative. It's obscene that people should die or suffer in this day and age, in the richest country in the world, because their health insurance sucks or gets refused or they don't have any. Obscene, barbaric, ridiculous and backward. Libertarian party? Tell me more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Here are some links to get you started. http://www.lp.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States) http://www.tx.lp.org/Platform.html Like most people, I find it impossible to support or reject ALL planks of a party platform. But this party suits me better than any other option here in the U.S. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 You hit it spot on' date=' Cent. The amount of brainwashing that has happened in the US is disheartening. Nice people actually believe the rubbish that fox 'news' spouts. The ironic thing is that, while these people see themselves as patriotic Americans, they've actually let an Australian businessman take control of the country. It's so ludicrous, I could cry. There was a coup in the US, and nobody noticed.[/quote'] Great post! Fully agree. Funny thing is he's viewed as a devout conserative but he's backed Obama and held a fundraiser for Hillary. He's given money to both parties. My take is he's a businessman. I think Fox News was more about a business niche that was underserved than his own politics. Before Fox News, what was there for conservatives? Rush? Talk Radio? But very few television voices that was widespread. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml http://d6.allthingsd.com/20080529/video-rupert-murdoch-on-politics-obama-and-mccain/ http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/rupert-murdoch.asp?cycle=06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 I'm also responsibility based on all aspects of behaviour. I'm very much of the opinion that if you can pay, you should pay. So health insurance should exist for those that earn the wages....but for those in poverty or lower earnings there should be some sort reasonable quality alternative. It's obscene that people should die or suffer in this day and age, in the richest country in the world, because their health insurance sucks or gets refused or they don't have any. Obscene, barbaric, ridiculous and backward. Libertarian party? Tell me more! I'm all for Libertarianism as an ideal, eg --> people having the greatest civil liberties possible without government intrusion or a nanny state. (Doesn't negate the need for laws). But 'Libertarianism' as a political platform is still evolving and hard to pin down -- the right and the left both claim it at times, and not with the same values. Noam Chomsky has called himself libertarian, and for some strange reason I don't think the conservative libertarians are going to rally behind him. Bottom line though, you hit it right ---> there's no reason why we (the US) don't have an adequate safety net. I don't know what the best answer is, but I do know the current situation is fucked up. And with all the boomers hitting a stage in life where they're going to need increased care, the tug on available resources is going to take off exponentially in the next decade. Ehhhh. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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