Egypt

[Flashermac]

I have nothing against foreign aid IF THE COUNTRY IS IN THE BLACK. Instead, the US is in deep doodoo. Whatever happened to "Charity begins at home"? You help your own folks first and then you can think about helping others.

 

 

[Steve]

I can certainly understand the sentiment and I make no moral judgments on those who would like to end all foreign aid no matter whom.

 

Although private charity is always an option, the amount of money as well as the political power that goes along with it would not be the same. As much as we are now suffering from our financial problems (many of which was self inflicted), I just think with the size of our budget, we can find something for certain situations. Specifically those that are oppressed and brutalized by an outside force.

 

It also helps maintain the stature of the country. We may not be the most popular country some times but we have also enjoyed a reputation for helping and that is worth something. Corporations even have 'goodwill' in their accounting.

 

Its not all dollars and cents, there can be a place for humanity. You guys are made of sterner stuff than me. I would have to help some peoples if I were President.

[chuckwoww]

 

p.s. I don't think you'll find anything because Egypt seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews in 1948.

 

Some did leave in 48. The rest left in 54 after the Lavon Affair.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

 

[Flashermac]

Distinguish between humanitarian and military?

 

 

[Flashermac]

Interesting. And back at you:

 

<< Gamal Abdel Nasser's coup in 1952 heralded a new era when anti-Jewish measures became more intense because several members of the Jewish community were arrested for spying and tried for treason. [color:red]The dispersion of Egyptian Jewry increased, however most Jews left the country after the socialist reform policy which nationalised most private businesses owned by foreigners, such as the Greek and Italian minorities at that time. Jews chose to liquidate their assets and leave. Contrary to common belief; most Egyptian Jews relocated in Western countries - particularly France - and didn't migrate to the newly established state of Israel.[/color] >>

 

...

 

 

<< After the foundation of Israel in 1948, difficulties multiplied for Egyptian Jews. That year, bombings of Jewish areas killed 70 Jews and wounded nearly 200, while riots claimed many more lives. During the Arab-Israeli war, the famous Cicurel department store near Cairo's Opera Square was firebombed. The government helped with funds to rebuild it, but it was again burnt down in 1952, and eventually passed into Egyptian control. >>

 

...

 

<< Though not one person was killed in the Lavon affair, two members of the ring, Dr. Moussa Marzouk and Shmuel Azzar, received a death sentence. By contrast, six members from Dr. Marzouk's extended family were killed in the 1948 massacres, and yet no one was arrested. In 1953, a cousin of Dr. Marzouk, Kamal Massuda, was killed in cold blood, and the authorities did not make arrests. Other members of the sabotage rings had families who lost their livelihood after the notorious 1947 Company Law was implemented.

 

[color:red]In the immediate aftermath of trilateral invasion during the Suez Crisis of 1956, on November 23 by Britain France and Israel, a proclamation was issued stating that 'all Jews are Zionists and enemies of the state', and it promised that they would be soon expelled.[/color] Some 25,000 Jews, almost half of the Jewish community left, mainly for Europe, the United States and South America, and Israel, after being forced to sign declarations that they were leaving voluntarily, and agreed with the confiscation of their assets. Some 1,000 more Jews were imprisoned. Similar measures were enacted against British and French nationals in retaliation for the invasion. In Joel Beinin's summary: "Between 1919 and 1956, the entire Egyptian Jewish community, like the Cicurel firm, was transformed from a national asset into a fifth column."

 

[color:red]After the 1967 war, more confiscations took place. Rami Mangoubi, who lived in Cairo at the time, states that nearly all Egyptian Jewish men between the ages of 17 and 60 were either thrown out of the country immediately, or taken to the detention centres of Abou Za'abal and Tura, where they were incarcerated and tortured for more than three years. The eventual result was the almost complete disappearance of the Jewish community in Egypt; less than a hundred or so remain today[/color].

 

Most Egyptian Jews fled to Israel (35,000), Brazil (15,000), France (10,000), the US (9,000) and Argentina (9,000). Today, anti-Jewish feelings run high in Egypt, and is common in the media. The last Jewish wedding in Egypt took place in 1984. >>

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt

 

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I get what you are saying, Steve. Most of us feel for these people and hate to see what is happening to them in certain areas and situations in these countries. But, let's get down a bit to a micro view. And apply that to the larger view.

 

Okay, you have a job, but you are severely in debt, so severely that you seriously need to consider bankruptcy. Your house has a leaky roof, your kids need money for school, for clothes, the car is in need of repairs, and you have to borrow just to barely make ends meet and stave off the creditors from repossessing your home. You see people worse off than you. You do feel for them and wish you could help them. You have 300 bucks to your name, the mortgage payment is due, the rainy season is starting, your wife used the credit card and bought the needed clothes and shoes. You have to find a way to pay these bills, keep your family afloat. Do you give 100 dollars to some poor bastard worse off than you? A dime, a quarter, fifty cents? A buck?

 

No. You CAN'T if you are a sensible man and care about yourself and your own. You can give him a sandwich or an apple maybe being a moral christian man, to help out someone even worse off than yourself. Would you give your money to a bum that you know will spend it on booze or drugs? Probably not I think. Well, that is what I see being done with our tax dollars in many cases. It is squandered and not used properly to actually help the way it is intended to help.

 

We, as a nation, give money to other countries that they do not actually need, or if truly needed, it is then drained away by the corrupt fucks that do not care about their own people. We pay bribes really to corrupt regimes. It is pissed away for the most part and rarely helping those in true need.

 

I am not saying we stop humanitarian aid. Food we send to those in need. We do it all the time, and would continue that sort of aid. But this wasted money should not be being spent when we are in such a bad way ourselves already. It should be being spent at home for the many things that we need it for. And in the future, when and if we can afford to send these huge amounts of money abroad, taxpayers money remember, your money, it needs to be closely scrutinized and not frittered away to corrupt dictators and countries that waste it without the money actually doing the good it should be doing. It's a huge waste of our resources and tax dollars.

 

And I see no reason we could not have a short term moratorium doing so. Until we are financially healthy to start helping again in that manner. Food, blankets,medical supplies, etc., humanitarian help would continue as always.

 

JMHO.

[chuckwoww]

Not sure what point you're making. The Lavon Affair in 1954 was what finally turned Egyptians against Jews. The British/French/Israeli invasion of Suez in 56 put the last nail in the coffin. It's a very important part of Egyptian history to this day. They are very proud of the fact that they drove Israel back from the canal at least temporarily. Leaving Sinai was the price Israel paid for 'peace'.

[Guest lazyphil]

watched louis theroux-ultra zionists last night.....looooonies!

[Flashermac]

@ChasW

 

My point is that many were killed and hundreds wounded with nothing done about it in 1948 and after. Looks like the Lavon business was meant to keep some sort of British presence to protect the Jewish community, in which case it wasn't so much treason against Egypt as self-defence.

 

e.g. << By contrast, six members from Dr. Marzouk's extended family were killed in the 1948 massacres, and yet no one was arrested. In 1953, a cousin of Dr. Marzouk, Kamal Massuda, was killed in cold blood, and the authorities did not make arrests. Other members of the sabotage rings had families who lost their livelihood after the notorious 1947 Company Law was implemented. >>

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Seems to me you're trying to put the blame on Egypt for not accepting Israel. That does seem to be the dominant Western position on history. Arabs mostly see Israel as a cancer I think. It probably all goes back to Ishmael.