Coss Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 consider yourself beamed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I totally reject that - you are talking about a conflict where a dictator is prepared to literally destroy his country rather than surrender power : it has very little to do with religion. The FSA kiss the Quran before going into battle, and they clearly believe that their cause is just, but this isn't Sunni vs Shi'ite Muslims : its a tyrant vs his own people. Another basketcase in the Middle East, and the Israelis still want to see stealth bombers pointed at Tehran. Beam me up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#The_uprising_and_the_Syrian_revolution_.282011.E2.80.932012.29 You totally misunderstood my comment. I refer to a massacre of muslim people for which no muslim would go into the streets to protest, exactly as per the cartoon posted by Flasher. From a humanitarian view, it is just plain weird that no one stand up for that. From a religious point of view, its muslim faction against muslim faction, all for power.....yes, we should worry very much. And from a political point of view, yes, its a dictator but he will be replaced by what ? more fanatics like in Lybia / Tunesia / Egypt ? How does the world and the region gain from this ? again, lots to worry about. 30-40 years ago, no burqas in any north African country, nowhere in Libanon, Syria, Iran. Today it is the norm, even in our streets here in Europe. Yes, extremists are on the rise, I worry about that. You sleep tight if you naively think it has little to do with religion, it is all about it. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 No question that the Wahabists have had undue influence throughout the Middle East, but Libya - at least on the face of it - seems to have little or nothing to do with religious differences. That may well come later, as it has in Iraq. Trillions of dollars trying to restore the rule of law in Iraq and they are still blowing one another up on a weekly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallenda Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I was just going to say, Sam Harris is one of the most hardcore anti-religious atheist pundits out there, his chapters on Islam are pretty brutal. Dawkins and Hitchens aren't what I'd call easy on them, but Harris makes those guys look like moderates on the issue. I've had a look at the Pew surveys done across the Muslim world, to me it seems as if views in those parts of the world are pretty frighteningly at odds with our own. I'm a lifelong Democrat. Most guys I work with are also Democrats, and when I hear somebody say something like that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Gore had been elected, I just roll my eyes. Orf course it would have. Get serious. What, if Gore had won Al Qaeda would have called off the attack because... uh why? Ditto with the notion that this woudln't have happened (these recent riots in Libya, etc.) if Obama wasn't president. Just stupid. These idiots don't care which party is in office, we're the Great Satan period. But the idea that one can't reject the idea being expressed and still support free speech is just wrong. That's the whole point. It's easy to support free speech that you agree with. The hard part is supporting the free speech you disagree with. But that's the principle in our countries, and a lot of people in the Middle East, North Africa etc. don't seem to understand this concept. In fact, you could even say they're against it. I'm surprised no one is focusing on the ones I would guess are the key culprits in this. I mean, there's no shortage of videos insulting Mohammed or Jesus or Vishnu or whoever on Youtube--have been for years and will be as long as we live. Some troublemaker dubbed these into Arabic and forwarded them onto media in those countries. And media there decided to run it as a legitimate story. You can't look at the thing and not realize it's just a bad home made youtube video, just one of maybe thousands like it. It's a bit like doing a news story about some online comments made by a regular troll out there on the internet somewhere. In other words, it's not a legitimate news item, but they reported it as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 No question that the Wahabists have had undue influence throughout the Middle East, but Libya - at least on the face of it - seems to have little or nothing to do with religious differences. That may well come later, as it has in Iraq. Trillions of dollars trying to restore the rule of law in Iraq and they are still blowing one another up on a weekly basis. again, you are only kidding yourself ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Exactly. All the fanatics in Pakistan and Malaysia ranting about being 'willing to for the Prophet' seem more intent on killing someone else than sacrificing themselves. One such fruitcake demanded, in English, that the US hand the 'mastermind' behind the video to the mob so that they could 'cut him into little pieces'. Contrast that with the monks who set fire to themselves during the Vietnam war to protest against the killing of innocents - it just doesn't get any more hardcore than that. The Syrian opposition is said the have already made a mocking video about the whole situation. While people are get violent because of a video, the moslems don't seem to care much about the killings of thousands of Arabs by the Syrian government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 "4: 93 If a man (a believer) kills a (another) believer intentionally his recompense is Hell to abide therein (forever): and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him." Qu'ran A Pakistani friend told me he thinks "believers" includes Christians and Jews as well, but I am sure that puts him in a very small minority of Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I was just going to say, Sam Harris is one of the most hardcore anti-religious atheist pundits out there, his chapters on Islam are pretty brutal. Dawkins and Hitchens aren't what I'd call easy on them, but Harris makes those guys look like moderates on the issue. Hi! I have just recently finnished his book "End of faith". The first chapter gives a very good explanation on why religion itself is a threat to humanity rather than religieus fanatics. That said I don't agree with everything he says. Especially I don't agree with his views on smoking weed, which he seems to think is totally harmless. He does go down rather heavy on the Muslims and rightly so in view of todays world but it appears to me that he sometime glides over christian fanatics who are just as dangerous as their muslim conterpart. I haven't read anything by Dawkins yet but I intend to and are looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexi Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I believe in Santa Claus and will be offended if anyone insults him My corner of Farangland has changed a lot over the years and now looks more like Karachi or Lagos so I`m keeping my mouth shut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coss Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 "4: 93 If a man (a believer) kills a (another) believer intentionally his recompense is Hell to abide therein (forever): and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him." Qu'ran Ahh but you see, killing another muslim in a riot would not have been any one's intention, the intention would have been to kill the evil Americans, the fact that there may have been no Americans present, is but a trifling detail. Much like the Taleban closing down drinks stalls because of the use of ice, something that Mohammed would not have had in the day. This they did, from Toyota pick-ups with 50 cal machine guns mounted in the back..... The behavior that is rioting, is pure and simple hysteria, once you can get a crowd riled up, you can pretty much direct them anywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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