New bra-less fashion

[Guest]

[color:blue]See through clothes have nothing to with it. Rape is not about sex, it is about domination and terrorisism.color=blue>

 

 

 

The simple fact is that the way we dress does affect how others treat us, for good and bad. Dressing and acting a certain way can in fact lead to a higher chance of sexual harrassment or rape. Certainly the way someone dresses (or flirts, etc.) is not an excuse to rape someone, but it is naive to believe it is not a factor.

 

 

 

A judge should not mitigate his sentence based on such criteria, just as he shouldn't forgive a mugger for robbing me because I was wearing expensive clothes and a nice watch. But if I'm going into a dangerous area, I don't wear my jewelry.

 

 

 

I think Thai people and certainly the police, more so than Americans, trivialize crimes (rapes, robberies, scams, etc.) based on what they believe to be the victim's foolish or carelessness.

[pattaya127]

This is quite a stretch, IMO. Even at 11 kids are somewhat aware of sex and sexuality. In a conservative society there is nothing wrong with asking young people to dress conservatively (to be fair, that same society should prevent boys wearing tight trousers). I'm not saying that all societies should force their children to be ashamed of their naughty bits, but this request is not unreasonable. The parts are there, it is silly to try to pretend they are not.

 

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And this my friend, was FD's contrarian post of the day... Oops, of the hour!

 

Now back to soccer.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

[color:blue]And this my friend, was FD's contrarian post of the day... Oops, of the hour!color=blue>

 

 

 

If it's not contrary, it's not worth responding.

 

 

 

Really, you can't post that putting bras on adolescents is effectively a conspiracy to turn them into whores without expecting a response, can you?

[Guest]

>>>>Some girls apparently do have boobs at that age. Assuming that the proper thing for young women is to wear a bra, then forcing all female students to wear a bra is probably the right thing to do. Forcing only those with noticeable boobs to wear one would subject them to unnecessary ridicule and attention; and then a few years later the ones who didn't wear a bra would be singled out.<<<<<

 

 

 

This is a ridiculous train of thought, FarangDang. Two girls out of a class of 150 start sprouting boobs, and the entire body of 148 be forced to wear bras to emulate them. I don't even want to think about the confusion with that set-up.

 

 

 

Development stages are different, age wise. A fact of life everywhere. A fact dealt with every day in every school, in every country, around the world. This is not an issue that the educational system should have control over. It is an issue that surrounds a young girl, and her family.

 

 

 

My God....The decision, when it is time that my daughter should start wearing a bra is a decision that I, my wife, and my daughter will make together as a family. It surrounds issues of sexuality that will be confussing to my daughter. She will need to know that it is because she is entering into an age of sexual development, and what that entails.

 

 

 

Forcing her to strap on a garment that is meant to support what is not there yet, and being forced to explain the implications of this before she is ready, is a violation of my parental rights, and hers. I reject the proposition that I should be forced to tell my daughter to wear something that addresses her sexuality before she has finished being a kid, just because someone elses kid down the street 'bloomed' early. You're only a child once, and you can never get that back, once lost. I will preserve my child's "inoccence" as long as it is reasonable. No 'State' run organization will ever be allowed to take that away from her. Not while I'm still here.

 

 

 

Your thinking is flawed, and very shallow. Your posts address the surface, but never the underlaying implications that surround the issue. Flame away, but sometimes you scare me.

 

 

 

HT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pattaya127]

Really, you can't post that putting bras on adolescents is effectively a conspiracy to turn them into whores without expecting a response, can you?

 

 

 

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who spoke of conspiracy? what is expected of women, still the rule in many sections of the Thai population is based on century-old habits and prejudices. hardly a conspiracy, but a state of things. In modern times, it may find its way in aspects such as mandatory bra-wearing for kids. not that i am sure it happens in every school. And why did you not speak of a conspiracy of turning them into wives? I used this word too and i made the collusion of the 2 words wife/whore to accent the servicing attitude, not to bring pimps/middlemen in the school.

[Yehtmae]

I fully support this new fashion and have decided to go bra-less myself.

 

 

 

 

[Sarisin]

Good for you, Yehtmae!

 

 

 

Of course, haven't we all noticed that there are plenty of male farangs in more urgent need of wearing a bra than most Thai ladies?

 

 

 

[ThaiGirlLover]

Reminds me of an episode on Seinfeld called "The Bro" that dealt with bras for men.

[Guest]

[color:blue]This is a ridiculous train of thought, FarangDang. Two girls out of a class of 150 start sprouting boobs, and the entire body of 148 be forced to wear bras to emulate them. I don't even want to think about the confusion with that set-up.color=blue>

 

 

 

Is that really the right ratio for 11 year olds? I haven't made a study of pre-teen breasts, so I wouldn't know. But, certainly at some point whether it is 10 or 15 a significant percentage of the girls need (or should, by some standards) wear bras.

 

 

 

[color:blue]Development stages are different, age wise. A fact of life everywhere. A fact dealt with every day in every school, in every country, around the world. This is not an issue that the educational system should have control over. It is an issue that surrounds a young girl, and her family.

 

 

 

My God....The decision, when it is time that my daughter should start wearing a bra is a decision that I, my wife, and my daughter will make together as a family. It surrounds issues of sexuality that will be confussing to my daughter. She will need to know that it is because she is entering into an age of sexual development, and what that entails.

 

 

 

Forcing her to strap on a garment that is meant to support what is not there yet, and being forced to explain the implications of this before she is ready, is a violation of my parental rights, and hers. I reject the proposition that I should be forced to tell my daughter to wear something that addresses her sexuality before she has finished being a kid, just because someone elses kid down the street 'bloomed' early. You're only a child once, and you can never get that back, once lost. I will preserve my child's "inoccence" as long as it is reasonable. No 'State' run organization will ever be allowed to take that away from her. Not while I'm still here.color=blue>

 

 

 

You are certainly making a lot of wild leaps and suppositions here.

 

 

 

First, what you are describing is simply your ideal society and does not reflect reality in most of the world. Many cultures and communities (perhaps most) are much more conformist and it is presumptuous of us to tell them that they should let their women run around braless or allow them to wear makeup or dress in trousers. You may think there's nothing wrong with letting your teen daughters dress like hookers and in America you have that right (to a degree), but most places in the world would not tolerate that (unless of course they were hookers ).

 

 

 

Second, you are assuming that being forced to wear a bra is such a horrible thing. I seriously doubt that many 11 year olds (any in the U.S.) would suddenly be shocked into adulthood by being told to wear a bra. This is not as if they are forced to sit through a seminar on how to use a vibrator; it's just a piece of clothing and has no inherent sexuality. By this logic you should be opposed to the school forcing them to wear a shirt as well.

 

 

 

Third, you assume that this rule is somehow a law and that you have no choice in the matter but to subject your daughter to these fascists. I, for one, don't know anything about the school in this particular case. In most cases, rules such as these are implemented by private schools or parochial schools. If you don't like that the girls are forced to wear bras or uniforms, take them somewhere else. People choose these schools because they reflect their own morals to a degree.

 

 

 

Fourth, we don't know what the reason is that the school implemented this rule. My explanation was just one possible reason. But even if the reason was that they were trying to socially condition the children, it is not our place to judge their culture. It may not be my way, and I might choose a different path, but I wouldn't rail against it.

 

 

 

Being forced to wear a bra is squarely within the realm of acceptable cultural differences (IMO). Preventing women from learning to read, not allowing them to defend themselves against rape, etc.; these are the kind of things that are not acceptable and are worthy of us spending our energy trying to "enlighten' other cultures. I would have a seriously hard time going before the HK school board, for example, and telling them that their dress code was archaic and more appropriate to the dark ages.

 

 

 

[color:blue]Your thinking is flawed, and very shallow. Your posts address the surface, but never the underlaying implications that surround the issue. Flame away, but sometimes you scare me.color=blue>

 

 

 

While I might miss some things, my thinking is anything but shallow. It appears that you are the one taking a very narrow view.

[Guest]

[color:blue]who spoke of conspiracy? what is expected of women, still the rule in many sections of the Thai population is based on century-old habits and prejudices. hardly a conspiracy, but a state of things. In modern times, it may find its way in aspects such as mandatory bra-wearing for kids. not that i am sure it happens in every school. color=blue>

 

 

 

What you describe is still a conspiracy. The term may have a sinister tone, but if what you describe is reality then I would still have to characterize it as a conspiracy, even if it was a centuries old one. If you had characterized this as social conditioning that was beneficial or perhaps neutral, then the term conspiracy would not have been warranted. But since you describe a methodical, intentional and systematic practice intended to produce what you see as a very negative goal, then I don't know what else to call it. It doesn't require sweaty old men plotting in a darkened room over how next they can subjugate women to make it a conspiracy.

 

 

 

Much social conditioning goes on in Thailand (much more so than in the u.s.), in terms of how genders should act towards each other, respecting various levels of society, respecting the monarchy and nation. This conditioning is much of what makes Thailand a nation and a culture. We can discuss which of these ideals clash with ours or which we think are negative to the society, but without them all Thailand would be very different.

 

 

 

[color:blue]And why did you not speak of a conspiracy of turning them into wives? I used this word too and i made the collusion of the 2 words wife/whore to accent the servicing attitude, not to bring pimps/middlemen in the school.color=blue>

 

 

 

Wife/whore, what's the difference? From your insinuations the "wife' you speak of is just a whore who services only one man. I was being succinct for a change.