Guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Please have a look at the link below. It is rather long but very interessting and might give you an input why you cannot compare a prostitute in Thailand with a health care worker. Agreed, maybe in western countries you can do that, because by law everybody gets the same chance to get an education but not in Thailand. And I guess this is an important point to consider in your argumentation. http://www.links.net/vita/swat/course/prosthai.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 it usually takes hard work and training to provide a truly beneficial service to the client. I feel the prostitute wants the money that is earned by a trained professional, but is unwilling to put the hard work and training in to get it. Harlequin, I guess this is one U-turn to many. We have been over the fact that being a prostitute is hard work. Remember one of my previous posts: Being a prostitute is a hard job:- It?s dangerous. The people you go with are most of the time total strangers. Once you are in their room, you are at their mercy and there?s always potential abuse around the corner. - It?s potential damaging to your health. Think about all the std?s you can get on the job. - You have to pretend that you have a good time all the time, even when you think the client is a creep. - Sleeping with creeps is hard on the psyche; - Sleeping with many people makes it hard for you to maintain a meaningful relationship; - You have to handle all kinds of perverts who hire you for services their wives are not willing to perform; - Ignorant people will look down on you, simply because you?re a prostitute; - You have no personal space anymore. While on the job, you have to give up all your privacy. To this you answered in agreeance: To the above, I would also add that the profession had a tendancy to 'harden' a person and comprimise their integrity and moral values. I guess it's time you make up your mind :hubba: Cheers, Soongmak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 The main reason I would not give them the same respect ------------------------------- you are turning around the pot. the question is not how much more or less respect one person deserves because he or she went 8 years longer in school than the next one. We all deserve respect until proven unworthy of it. As far as I am concerned. i do not see why someone should not be respected because she is a prostitute. There has been great litterature written about the redemption of failed, weak, twisted human beings. Kindly leave your intellect and respect measurement rules a bit and try to "shoot" from the heart. There is redemption for oneself there too. True respect lies there, not in dry and convoluted statements about segments of the pouplation, ie. prostitutes in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Soongmak, You are saying that by my adding to your list, I was agreeing with every item on your list. Not true. In fact, I partially agree with some of the items on your list. Let's read my statement again: [color:"red"]it usually takes hard work and training to provide a truly beneficial service to the client. I feel the prostitute wants the money that is earned by a trained professional, but is unwilling to put the hard work and training in to get it. [/color] Permit me to elaborate: does a prostitute work hard for her money? Questionable. I would say yes in a few cases. Difficult to debate because everyone has a somewhat different definition of 'hard work'. I personally don't see lovemaking as hard work. Does it require training? The same kind of training that a licenced health professional requires? Absolutely not. Harlequin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Bkkfreak, Thank you for the link. It is an interesting article. Do you know if it was published in any academic journals? There is a bit of a contradiction in the conclusion: [color:"red"] Perhaps what best sums up the reasons for the continuing willing participation of many prostitutes is this remark of a 28-year-old Filipino prostitute: "Of course, I hate this, but there is no other way to make this much money."73 A young Thai woman asks, "Why work in a factory for 2,000 or 3,000 baht a month [$80 to $120], when one man for one night is maybe 1,000 baht?"74 As long as there are no other high-wage jobs available for those women, and as long as prostitution continues to pay more than the less detrimental alternatives, women will continue to choose prostitution in Southeast Asia. And meanwhile, the official attitude of coercion and condonement is currently fixed because too many people make too much money off the prostitutes. I have spoken of prostitution as among the highest earning jobs a women can get in Southeast Asia, but in fact, "Korea Church Women United estimates that prostitutes receive less than one-thirtieth of the fees their patrons pay."75 Indeed, "Airlines, travel agencies, hotels, madams, pimps - all take a chunk of the prostitutes' earnings"76 - not to mention paid-off policemen and politicians. In one particularly astonishing case, it was reported "in 1979 that the Manila Ramada made forty per cent of its income from extra fees for prostitutes."77 If one can ignore the egregious human costs, the toll that is exacted on the young women involved, prostitution, simply the commodification of a basic human, basic male, desire, is profitable for all persons involved. In this world marketplace, taking into account our unrelenting pursuit of mammon, prostitution, as practiced in Southeast Asia, is merely an efficient, unrelenting articulation of our modern market values applied to male sexuality. [/color] The first paragraph suggests that SE Asian prostitutes earn much more in the job than they could doing other work. Yet the 2nd paragraph suggests their (net) earnings are much lower. I don't believe the 1/30th figure quoted, but it would be interesting to know what it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 [color:"red"]There has been great litterature written about the redemption of failed, weak, twisted human beings.[/color] P127, I am guessing that where this literature refers to prostitutes, part of their redemption involves leaving the P4P field. Do you agree? Harlequin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hi, as to your first question, no I do not think that this is a text which was used for any Academic Article, but in fact I do not know. You are right on the first sight there is a contradiction in the conclusion. But in my opinion both statements are correct however. The point to verify is indeed the 1 to 30 ratio from which I also do not know if it is correct, also to me it seems to be rather high. However, in this calculation I guess not only the incomes of the ladies are considered, but also everything related to the business such as barfines, taxes of the etablisements, business related corruption etc. etc. If you add up everything in and around the business I am certain just a very small percentage ends up in the pockets of the ladies, but the cake is very huge. Please consider, why should a government ignore an officially illegal business if not for money? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Soongmak, You are saying that by my adding to your list, I was agreeing with every item on your list. Not true. Harlequin, Let's look at your statement again: To the above, I would also add that the profession had a tendancy to 'harden' a person and comprimise their integrity and moral values. Most people would use the word ALSO when they agree with the items on the list and want to add further to the list. In my dictionary, "also" means "in addition" and I would say that this definitely implies that you agree with the points cited beforehand. I mean, what's the point to adding to a list when you only agree with half of it? Maybe you can give me your definition of the word ALSO so I know what it means in your part of town? :: In fact, I partially agree with some of the items on your list. Wow, thanks for clarifying EXACTLY where you stand. :: Cheers, Soongmak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 I personally don't see lovemaking as hard work. Harlequin, I guess if you had an old guy poking you from behind while squeezing your tits, you would feel different about the matter :: :: :: Cheers, soongmak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Songmak, I'm not sure there will ever be an answer forthcoming. I've seen this before where someone will make basically an outrageous statement, then proceed to debate primarily by obfuscation and diversion. Now we are on whether prostitution is hard work or not? Or the definition of 'also' means in the context of Harlequin agreeing with your post or not? The problem with taking a basically indefensible position is that once you commit yourself to it, you either have to ignore rational arguments to the contrary, or in the end admit you probably went overboard. Guess where we're at in this thread? Not to be too harsh on Harlequin, but seems he'd rather debate the details rather than discuss the core issues raised by his initial comment. By the way, HQ, I do apologize for coming on too strong in the beginning, but you evoked a visceral response in me (which was maybe your intent) that led a lot of the 'thunder' behind my initial post. I think the points I (and others) have raised still stands, but I fear they will probably not be addressed. I'd restate what these are, but I'm trying not to waste bandwidth. I actually think the original point HQ raised was one worth discussing. The reason being I think it is sadly shared by a lot of people. I would be interested in what made someone arrive at such a conclusion and why they avidly participate with such people in an activity that is purely optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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