robaus Posted December 31, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Sanukdee, She isn?t wholly self employed. That would be freelancing on Beach Road. The bread and butter and supposed safety net comes from the bar salary. And when you?ve got such a hard bitch of an owner, it makes it pretty hard. I doubt? no I?m f***g certain? that neither you nor I would put up with such unreasonable salary cuts. Would a shop assistant in the west justifiably be expected to pay for shoplifters? thefts. Or would you just dismiss it as ?Win some, lose some i say?. >>Write it off as a business loss. ? against what? It?s a 100% loss. Punter absconds on 300 baht bin. She has to wear the full 100% loss of 2 days wages. >>If she wants a guaranteed wage she can work in a factory or department store. My ex BGGF, now married in Europe, tried that. It was in fact the last straw that drove her down to Pattaya. She worked in a supermarket in Bangkok. The owner made her pay 1,500 up front for uniforms to secure the job on a 3,000 baht/mth salary, which would be refunded after 3 months service. Once she was working there she discovered that the owner routinely fires girls after 2.5 months to avoid the refund. Sure enough?happened to her too. I said why don?t Thais fight back. I?d put a brick through his f**ing plate glass window in the middle of the night if that stunt were pulled on me. She said police come take me. Owner have more money than me to pay police. If the Thai government wants to end sex tourism, it should do what Singapore has done? end government and police corruption (they appear to have done so in S?pore, anyway??), raise the standard of living (most definitely have done that), provide well paid employment ,education, and care for its population. I first visited Stinkypore 30 years ago, when it was backpacker paradise down Bencoolen St? cheap slum lodging, cheap food.. albeit with rat infested open sewers. Now it?s most defintely 1st world. I wouldn?t dream of going there for sanuk?can?t afford it, others can maybe?. far cheaper in Australia? and far far cheaper in LOS. Mailuk, Shit happens?. sometimes repeatedly, without any fault of your own. I didn?t come down in the last shower. I?ve been visiting here regularly for about 15 years and I?ve been living here 3 and a half years now. I haven?t seen or heard it all yet, but I have known in the biblical sense hundreds of bgs and their stories. I would have heard about this incident anyway. I was told that one of my best expat mates was in the bar at the time. No doubt I?ll see him tonight to get the full SP. Maybe it was just ignorance on the part of the jerk in the OP and the eejit who got his shirt dirty?diddums? what a big girl?s blouse? and sheer malice/cowardice on the part of the wankers who threatened the other girl with a bottle! We have infinitely more earning capacity than these BGs have. Agreed scamsters are scamsters in any language and nationality.... have your wits about you... a reference point for which is this forum. But all I ask is that we, newbies and cynical oldies alike, give the girls a fair go until we know otherwise, treat them with respect as human beings (there but for the grace of God go we ? we just happen by accident of birth to have the right passports), stand in their shoes awhile, and play fair. Happy New Year. Gogos open till 6am and beerbars 24hrs. I know I'm going to have a good one! :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 [color:"red"] JJ: Question? What would you advise a man in the P4P scence? Should he respect himself? Should he admonish himself because he pays for the sexual services from a woman that has no respect for herself? Are the risks equally not the same for the punter, HIV, unwanted pregnancy, losing his soul, etc? Sorry to say but your slant doesn't align with your sentiment nor your actions. It seems he's given his answer by omission, he has none because there is none. If you look down on the provider, you have to denigrate the purchaser as well. I'm looking for Harlequin the relinquish his sordid activities and devote his life to making merit at Wat Prak Kao. Surely it must be incredibly stressful to engage in an activity that he finds so disreputable. Jasmine, I wouldn't necessarily find a lot 'honorable' about his stance. This is the same type of guy who would be preaching monogamy from the pulpit while porking his secretary. Mmm... Harle-crite, any reply? [/color] Caspar, Welcome to the board. I wouldn't waste much time lecturing a punter about his P4P activites. They are big boys and how they live their life is their business. I indulge in my own vices, and would not want anyone lecturing me to desist in them. As for the risks involved in prostitution, probably less for the punter than the prostitute, provided they practice safe sex. I would STRONGLY advise both to use a condom. Speaking of advice, since you are new to the board I will advise you to dial down the agressive tone of your posts. We get into some lively debates here over legitimate differences of opinion, but saying something like: "This is the same type of guy who would be preaching monogamy from the pulpit while porking his secretary." just make you look nasty . Harlequin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Hi, [color:"red"] Jasmine, it may be true that other Thai men feel the same as Harl does, but does that make a correct viewpoint? [/color] To be honest, I really don't know whether it is right or not. From a female's prospective though, I would still do my darnest to avoid that profession because I feel that God gives us brains and I could find something else. Mind you, I have not been in such poverty or had pressure from family to earn. [color:"red"] But quite crudely and honestly, sometimes guys just wanna get laid. [/color] We females feel like that also. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 [color:"red"] By applying this logic we would have to look down at any service oriented profession. We don't pay for tangible goods, but instead for their time. Gee, I wonder what you think about social workers, psychologists, concierges, and the old guy that greets you at Wal-Mart? In this case we are paying a woman for sex (although I like the 'friendship' euphemism, nudge nudge, wink wink). I also doubt you are being friendly to your friends in the Biblical sense. But your stance begs the question: If you don't respect prostitutes because you have to pay for their 'friendship', why are you paying them with the rest of us sinners? Surely if prostitution was such an unworthy profession you could find a girlfriend that would provide you with non-transactional sex (well sort of, but at least when you pay for dinners, movies, presents, it has the moral approval of Western society in general so you can rest easy). [/color] Caspar, All things being equal, I respect the work of social workers, psychologists, concierges, even the old guy that greets me at Wal-Mart (and by the way will also try his best to answer any questions I have about shopping at Wal-Mart without nagging me to tip him). I too provide a service and expect to get paid for it, and if I performed any of the above professions, I would also expect to get paid. I do not expect to get paid for providing companionship to my friends or for making love to a woman. You are making assumptions about my personal activities that I will neither confirm nor deny because (once again), they are irrelevant to this discussion. Some of us on this board are comfortable discussing their own P4P activities, some are not - please respect our decisions about this. Don't waste bandwidth asking questions that I am not going to answer. Harlequin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Hi, "I do not expect to get paid for providing companionship to my friends or for making love to a woman." Of course in the case of bargirls it is their *job* to provide companionship and 'making love'. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequinbkk Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 [color:"red"] Of course in the case of bargirls it is their *job* to provide companionship and 'making love'. [/color] KS, Agreed, it is their job. I said this in rebuttal to Caspar's statement that I look down on all jobs in the service sector. Harlequin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falang Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 [color:"blue"] "Just to clear up any possible confusion, I do not have much respect for prostitutes, but if it is between consenting adults, I don't think prostition is or should be a crime." [/color] You know why you don't respect them? Because you only scratch the surface of it quite simple. I wrote the story of let's call her Nit on this board in the past but I will write it a other time for you. Nit was married to a good Thai man who a good job has a electrician in Bangkok. They didn't earn big money but it was a good job by Thai standard so with that job they were raising 3 children. One day bad luck comes and her husband was electrocute on the job and she end up with 3 children to raise on her very low salary has a cook in a cafeteria of a factory. She discover really fast that she can not raise the children with that wage, she had to leave her appartement because she could not pay the rent and she had no money to find a new one. Can you imagine yourself in the street with 3 children? She contact some of her past friends that come from Surin to, she knew they were in Bangkok and working in the bar scene but she didn't have anybody to help her because her parents are dead and her only sister is married and she is living with her husband and children on a small farm around Surin and are barely making a living for the family with it. Her past friends (2 of them) help her financially to find a other place to live but that was only part of the problem. Now she had to feed her children and make sure they get a good education so they will get out of this poverty. She decided to talk with her friends about the work in the bar and she made a choice that day that will change her life forever. You may argue that she made a bad choice that day but don't forget we were not in her shoes at that time. With her work at the bar she raise her 3 children and give them a good education so now the 3 of them have a good job, they are married and 2 of them have children. She is still working at the bar because at that time she put all her money to raise her children but now she is doing it to be able to live, to eat and have a roof over her head. Her owne children think like you they don't have any respect for that kind of work, 2 of them don't speak anymore to her because of that and the third one (the one I met) is speaking a little with is mother but he is very ashame of her mother and he let her know every time they speak together. When we met, he let her know right in front of me that she was a bad woman and I had to restrain myself to not kicking his bottom right there. You know something, her children are thinking like you and in my book you should be ashame to think like that not knowing the story behind the girls you don't respect because they are in the protitution. I have a great respect for her and I trust her to and by trusting her she is trusting me and she will not break that trust between us. So my advise here, let scratch the surface a little bit deeper and you will find very good people working in the bars. I do respect the women who choose for what ever reason to work in the bars and by doing that they feel that I respect them and I didn't have any bad experience with them and I made good friends with some of them even if I don't had sexe with them. You should forget your previous bad experience in the bars and look at them with new eyes you may find some of them are good people and some are not but my experience is the number of good people surpass the number of bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Thanks for the welcome, although I've been posting on these and other message boards for over 10 years. But hey, thanks anyways. I'm sorry you interpreted my response as 'aggressive'. Of course, mischaracterizing another poster without responding to any questions is a diversionary tactic I see employed by those without much other substance to their posts. Think of it as me vigorously pursuing what I perceive as key points that you blithley avoid. If you might take my gentle advice, I see more than one person pointing out that you engage either in points unrelated to the question being asked, or in mountainous minutiae which seems to do little to advance the discussion but more reduce debate by attrition. I'll answer any questions you ask germane to this subject, could you do the same? You know, your business is your business, but for the pursposes of this discussion it certainly has relevance (BTW, no one asked for details). To me, it is like a prohibitionist railing against the sins of alcohol while having a fifth in the backseat of his car. Practice what ya preach, bubba. Why it is so troubling to you on a solely anonymous forum to speak about participation in P4P? In addition to questioning the credibility of one who seemingly speaks from both sides of their mouth, you've also been asked the following -- if a person considers prositutes as unworthy of respect, does this not imply the participant can also be viewed in the same light? Here's a thought: try answering JJ's question as a hypothetical one, maybe you have a 'friend' who engages in nighttime p4p but thinks the whole thing is a nasty business. What does that say about your 'friend'? BTW, I notice you never answered my question about why one wouldn't seek out non-P4P venues with a regular GF who could provide you with non-monetary based sex... nice dodge -- again. I find when I need to repeat myself more than once I tend to gravitate towards other threads which have more intellectual 'yield', but will repeat myself. To me it is entirely wrong to state thievery is somehow more 'ok' because of your moral condemnation (or lack of respect, or whatever niggling term you might finally agree to) of BGs and their profession. That's how you jumped into this thread my friend, and what got me riled in the first place. Forgive my limited comprehension, but as I read it, you've never really explained why these girls are 'less worthy'. My conclusion is the sum of your argument seems entirely disjointed (as others have pointed out) -- prostitutes are unworthy of respect, because prostitution is a profession that is unworthy or respect. Therefore it follows that when people cheat them it's ok because they aren't worthy of respect. Does that cover it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Hi, "Agreed, it is their job." Than can you please explain why you see a difference between the bargirl and the other professions below? - a bargirl asking to get paid for companionship, which a friend gives for free - a psychiater (sp?) asking to get paid for advice, which a friend would give for free - a masseuse asking to get paid for massaging you, which a friend would do for free Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted January 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 The full story I found out last night. It seems there was only one drunken coward involved, not 2. My mate was approaching the bar as the incident happened and witnessed the guy running for his life with his shirt torn off and his back blooded. Girls and taxi boys were screaming after him, but he lost them. When he got to the bar he found out from his girlfriend that the guy had been drunk, pestering one of the girls to talk to him. She?d turned her back on him, and he didn't just threaten, but had actually hit her over the back of the head with a bottle, requiring her to go to hospital for stitches. All hell had broken lose then, and despite being drunk the guy quickly realised he was in deep shit, and took off obviously without paying his bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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