TGs who marry Farangs must be Hookers ?

[sidsanuk]

Sorry if the title seems inflamatory. It is not meant to be I assure you.

 

I am just curious about how Thai people regard Thai/Farang marriages. Some background to my curiosity..

 

Having spent a bit of time around the bar scene, and getting totally caught up in the whole BG experience, I was contemplating marrying a BG. That whole decision process and how you come to terms with it is another interesting question.

 

I then started to get a bit hardened to the BG scene, but really wanted to settle down long term with a TG. So I started on a search for a non BG TG. Interesting experience.

 

Based on that experience, I am interested in learning how others have been treated, or what they believe the perception of the relationship is by others. Some background and examples from my own experience.....

 

My GF had never been out with a farang.

Only had one Thai BF, who just wanted to get in her pants all the time and treated her like shit.

She was actually still a virgin when we met.

Comes from a 'nice' but poor family. One brother, one sister, all been to uni, through the parents hard work and sacrifice.

I have met family many times and genuinely like them.

She got to the stage of fearing she would never find a jai dee guy and never get married.

She is 33. I am 45. We have been together 2 years and will marry in a few months.

We now live in Oz.

 

We actually met on the Internet. (ICQ)

When we first met for a date, we both took along a chaperone.

She tried to get someone from her office to come as a chaperone. None of them wanted to go on a date with a farang!

 

I was travelling to LOS once a month on busines at the time.

 

After a few trips, I managed to pursuade her to stay with me at my Hotel. No sex. Big step for her, as her family was shocked. Had to say travel to/from was too long, not safe at night, had 2 rooms at Hotel etc. I had to meet family too, before she would even consider it.

 

Next big step, she moved to Oz after 12 months. Why did we not get married first asked family! (I was/am going through divorce, which was explained to family)

 

GF is understanding and patient waiting for my divorce, but is somewhat saddened by the comments from extended family and neighbours. ie why not married yet, where did you meet this farang? The implication being, that we must have met in a bar and maybe I will never marry her.

 

Because of this, we had a very public engagement with the extended family 6 months ago. I wanted her to have a nice 'rock' on her finger, to show others we were serious.

 

In her Soi, there are 2 or 3 other women who married farangs and are now back in LOS alone. There are also girls who are BGs in the Soi. So there is a somewhat stereotypical view of farangs in her home environment.

 

Thankfully her family do not subscribe to that view. They have lived in the Soi for about 40 years and are viewed as one of the 'good' stalwart families, with sound values and morals etc. People always dropping in for advice or a helping hand etc. Neighbours on hard times are always offered leftover dinners etc.

 

So that only compounds the confusion. What is this 'nice' girl doing with this farang? He is quite a bit older, bit grey, bit overweight...in fact just like 50% of those guys who hang out in NEP :-)

 

She tells me the gossip and inuendo does not bother her. Her Mother has said just ignore it. Sid is a jai dee guy and we all love him too :-) Or my wallet LOL. (Not fair, they never ask for money, although I have helped them out a few times) As an aside, my GF and I have discussed Sinsot. I have no problem with that (I researched the whole cultural issue here. Thanks guys). We reckon 250,000 Baht should be OK for her Mum. Her Mother said if we are short of money, don't worry about the Sinsot. (We have never told the family quite how well off I am)

 

So I guess the real question, after this rambling background is this. If you are married to a TG, how is your relationship viewed by her friends, family, your friends/family. And for a true test of this question, I guess my question must really be focussed to Board members who have married non BG TGs or who have friends who have married non BG TGs.

 

In other words, because you have a Thai wife, who is probably younger than you and very cute and attractive, is the assumption that she must have been a Hooker looking for an easy way out? My experience is that probably 50% of farang make that assumption and maybe 90% of Thais.

 

Depends on the setting of course. Some of my business clients have met my GF socially and would never assume anything other she is what she is, a cute, sweet, attractive little package :-))

 

Just a sensitive new age guy, who worries what people think of my girl :-))

 

Sid

[limbo]

Hi Sid,

 

very interesting. I'm married to non BG and live in southern Thailand. I've been wondering about this myself sometimes, how do Thais see us?

Her family is great, there not poor nor rich but also her close relatives can all look after themselves, so they never asked for money (yet!?). Her parents helped me out a lot in many ways already and it seems to me that I got accepted by her close relatives as well.

Her friends I get a long very well with, most of them speak variable degrees of English.

When we travel however, I had at least one situation when I walked over the border with my wife for a stamp in my passport, and a motodirver yelled something about being a whore to her. This upset me big time but didn't seem to bother her too much. She said it's better to let the guy talk and ignore him.

In general my wife says Thai peoples first impression IS that she's from a bar. It may be different pending on where you live, here in Samui (and my wife is a local girl), where we live, many local girls married farangs now, and the locals know that the girls aren't necessarily from a bar. For my wife it's also important that her parents know and are fine with it, so she doesn"t bother that much about other people's thoughts.

Interestingly enough, if the girl/wife is from Isaan, the assumption is even greater according to my wife.

On second views, the way your GF/wife talks, behaves and dresses may change the initial view.

 

Bottom line is, walking around in Thailand with a Thai woman, will give other Thais as a first impression that your wife is a BG.

 

Good luck to you Sid, seems that you met a very nice girl.

It's interesting to see some other views as well.

 

Cheers,

Limbo

 

[sidsanuk]

Hi Limbo.

 

Interesting, I always thought that Thais could tell if a girl was a BG from 100 metres :-) And therefore as my girl is not, it would be plain to see. And yet she still thinks that people will assume she is a BG. It's no big deal for us, I'm just curious as to how people make these judgements.

 

You are no doubt right, that it is about the way they dress, the way they behave with people etc.

 

I remember going to meetings in my early days of visting LOS, with one of our PAs from our Bangkok office. A real sucess story by the way, Isaan girl, got herself through Uni, speaks fluent English. Anyway, we had long chats in the car about relationships and perceptions. She made the point that when out with me, she had to make sure she dressed well/professionally, so as not to be taken for a BG or my mia noi.

 

An interesting incident a few weeks back, when we had dinner in LOS with a work coleague and his GF. Who he had already told me used to be a BG.

 

I intentionally did not say a thing to my GF, so that I could see her reaction/perception My colleague was also keen to know the feedback.

 

We went for a very nice dinner at a fancy Hotel etc. Then I waited for the feedback on the way home :-)

 

My GF had her pegged within about 1 min flat! It was really a combination of things that came down to this:

 

Her obvious lack of education.

Her reluctance to join in much of the conversations.

Her tendancy to over elaborate or be 'over the top' on her skills, experiences. She was a 'manager' here and an 'X' here.

Her tendency to play what we Poms would call 'lady muck'. ie put on airs and graces that she assumed would fit the surroundings. The way she interacted with the Hotel staff etc.

And the way she looked. Not that I can really tell, but Isaan girls look very different from BKK girls to a Thai. Apparently skin colour, cheek bones, jaw etc.

 

Other guys at work (expats) also tagged her as an ex BG very quickly.

 

Interesting signals that we give out sometimes, quite unconsiously :-)

 

Sid

[ABCinBK]

Sid,

 

>>Depends on the setting of course. Some of my business >clients have met my GF socially and would never assume >anything other she is what she is, a cute, sweet, attractive >little package :-))

 

This is interesting and had me laughing a bit. Most Westerners I know would instantly conclude the girl was there with some money motivation, if the age gap is visible and over 10 years. In the States, major age gaps are rare among "normal" couples where money/earnigs are similar.

 

My wife is an ex-BG. She was a BG when we met. When we met, I looked twenty-something and she looked like a Thai in her early twenties. She was actually just a few months shy of 20....but I guess the barscene mad her look older. (Since then, the healthier life has restored a younger look despite her aging 2 years). Anyways, nobody in the USA thinks there's anything unusual about us -- we just don't look like there's a major age gap. That wouldn't be the case, if I was white though....most of my 29 year old friends look as old as my 45 year old Filipino buddy or my sister's Japanese husband when he was 49.

 

I think people will think things when the age gap is larger. Her clothes and mannerism would make a difference too, but nothing covers up the age gap. Still, that can be overcome if the guy, although much older, is fairly attractive and fit. Women do claim to fall for older men, but I doubt they fall for older unattractive men.

 

The best thing to do is learn to just not care what others think. I tell my wife this all the time, but Thais always seem to care.

 

ABC

[Crash999]

Says ABCinBK:

---

....most of my 29 year old friends look as old as my 45 year old Filipino buddy or my sister's Japanese husband when he was 49.

---

 

Geez... Am I gonna age that much in the next year?!

[Guest lazyphil]

<<TGs who marry Farangs must be Hookers ? >>

 

Of course not.

 

[cardinalblue]

I think the answer to your question will range greatly. On the superficial surface, people think BG of some type.

 

I think we do the same when we see a falang guy with a thai girl. We will generalize and come to some conclusion . Might or might not be accurate.

 

A lot will depend on education and experience of the person making the assessment.

 

Each couple is different and many factors come into play. Are you talking about just physical looks?

 

If you see a 50 year old guy with a 23 year uneduacted, issan looking girl, what do you think people will think? Age difference, dress, apperarance, presentation, location, time of day, ethnicity, skin color, body painting, chemistry between the two, etc all come into play.

 

I have become good friends at work with a thai co-worker and have been going out with her a lot recently. She is 18 years my younger but very women-looking (vs the girl look you get on sukhumvit). She is dressing extremely stylish and conservative (that is because who she is) and just looks highly educated (and because she is). She has a car, etc. For the most part and especially for this society, you can look at people and have a pretty good idea what social class they fall in. I think even more for the women than say the men.

 

I just don't get the same starring disapproval looks i get when I am actually with a bar girl. I sense that thais seem to know the difference between when a falang is with a BG and a non-bg. It is hard to describe but it is definately not the same feeling. I also think some guys tend (guys who non-bg eligible) to act differently if they are with a bg vs a non-bg. I sure do as i feel some neviousness/uneasiness being in the companionship of BGs when out of the bar scene.

 

 

cardinalblue

 

 

[JJsushi]

Says cardinalblue:

---

I have become good friends at work with a thai co-worker and have been going out with her a lot recently. She is 18 years my younger but very women-looking (vs the girl look you get on sukhumvit). She is dressing extremely stylish and conservative (that is because who she is) and just looks highly educated (and because she is). She has a car, etc. For the most part and especially for this society, you can look at people and have a pretty good idea what social class they fall in. I think even more for the women than say the men.

 

I just don't get the same starring disapproval looks i get when I am actually with a bar girl. I sense that thais seem to know the difference between when a falang is with a BG and a non-bg. It is hard to describe but it is definately not the same feeling. I also think some guys tend (guys who non-bg eligible) to act differently if they are with a bg vs a non-bg. I sure do as i feel some neviousness/uneasiness being in the companionship of BGs when out of the bar scene.

 

---

 

Some would just say that in the situation you just described, your lady friend could be seen as a high-end escort, gold digger or mistress; rather than a common hooker. In other words the package looks alot nicer and is therefore better accepted. Your friend does not look like an obvious prostitute and you don't interact with her as such so there is the benefit of the doubt, which would cause many to supress their negative reactions.

 

Here in the States you could go out with a college student stripper who looks and dresses like trailer park trash and people will stare at you with disgust and contempt whereas you could go out with a stripper that dresses like a college student and no one would even blink an eye.

Now if there is an apparently large age gap no one really even cares what the girl looks like they are more focused on giving you the dirty, perverted old man who should be ashamed of himself stare.

 

Personally, I don't buy into the Thais have this collective sixth sense and can spot a prostitute a mile away nonsense. They use the same profiling techniques and stereotypes as anyone in any country does. They assess the people involved, situational context, mannerisms, interactions, clothes, attitude, language used, physical location, ethnicity and a bunch of other factors.

[JJsushi]

Says ABCinBK:

---

 

I think people will think things when the age gap is larger. Her clothes and mannerism would make a difference too, but nothing covers up the age gap. Still, that can be overcome if the guy, although much older, is fairly attractive and fit. Women do claim to fall for older men, but I doubt they fall for older unattractive men.

 

ABC

---

 

I think you are correct when you say that age is the most telling factor. I don't know of many Western or Western inluenced countries where it is normal to see relationships where women are practically half the age of their male companions. I think 5-10yr age differences are more the norm.

[Guest]

Sid,

 

Your story is very similar to my own: Internet meeting, GTG, nice family, life together in farangland. There is a large age gap between my wife and me. When we go out in Thailand she got disapproving looks which did bother me a lot. Here in the States the disapproving looks are for me. (In both cases it is women who are doing the disapproving.) I am pretty oblivious to the stuff here by now. People are jerks, but caring about what passersby think about me would make me a different kind of jerk. Now I think it's funny.

 

It's good to develop a thicker skin. Life is short. Most of the people you see in your life won't really matter to you. Better to focus on the ones that do.

 

Khun Pad Thai