On Behalf Of the Rural Farang.

[Specialist]

J2 has his viewpoint. LizardKing has his.

 

And then there's the truth, which may be something else. "It would take authorities a day or two to clear the Ratchaprasong area, deputy army chief-of-staff Dapong Rattanasuwan said on Thursday night. According to Lt-Gen Dapong, security officials have entered the area on Thursday and found gas tanks that were wired with explosives and ready to go off hidden inside the Four Seasons hotel."

 

Rink

 

No matter what Menny Begin might have thought when he was running the Irgun in his younger days, no matter what Bobby Seale and the Black Panthers might have thought, no matter what the Weathermen might have thought, no matter what al-Qaida or the Taliban might have thought, no matter what Mr. Toxin might have thought, improvised explosive devices (such as this) are never a legitimate instrument of political discussion.

 

[bust]

For what it's worth I think some farang adopt the "Class" mentality when they re-locate to LOS

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Guys, I understand that tempers are flaring and people are stressed due to this (my business and my wife's have been affected financially as well), but I really do not appreciate people getting personal.

 

So, how about we all take a step back and realize that not everyone shares our point of view, but that does not make them evil nor does it mean we can get personal with them.

 

LK, you could have easily expressed your opinion without getting personal and I hope you can see that when you are sobered up.

 

Sanuk!

 

[Julian2]

Thanks KS, I can see the advantage of going to bed early now, it doesn't do you any good to read late night posting.

I suspect my own posts are less creative since I gave up drinking.

 

It's a storm in a tea cup, the OP was meant to be nothing more than an attempt to explain why expats who live among the redshirts may sympathise with the causes of the problems them while not agreeing with civil disobedience as a solution.

 

I'm not going to get in a slanging match with Lizardking, I'll restrict myself to posting the facts and well informed, well written articles like this one.

(This should cheer him up when he wakes up). :content:

 

Red Shirts had good reason to protest

# [color:red]Robert Amsterdam[/color]

# From: The Australian

# May 20, 2010 12:00AM

 

GIVEN the sudden and bloody end to the two-month-long protest rally in downtown Bangkok, I believe it is essential the world understands who the Red Shirts are, and what they have been fighting for.

 

There continues to be a concerted effort from the Thai government and its supporters to delegitimise the movement, paint them as "terrorists," or otherwise seek to deprive the Red Shirts of their legitimate grievances over repeated violations of their democratic rights and reversals of their votes. I can state unequivocally that this movement represents a schism within Thai society that has not been created or developed by any one individual, but represents a fundamental dispute over an exclusionary political system.

 

As a lawyer representing former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, I had the opportunity to visit the encampment just days before the final violence began to investigate recent violations of human rights by the government. The people I met were a polyglot group, young and old, from impoverished farmers to academic intelligentsia, all committed to the peaceful restoration of constitutional democracy. The vast majority of Red Shirts is vocally opposed to the few extremists on the fringe who had resorted to arms, thus distorting the public image and spirit of their movement.

 

The Red Shirts, otherwise known as the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, largely come from the north of the country. While many Red Shirts are impoverished citizens, there are also many lower middle-class migrants to Bangkok who retained their class identity, and others of diverse backgrounds who have sympathised with their cause.

 

The movement was founded shortly after the 2006 coup that removed Thaksin from office following his second landslide election victory. The first campaign of the Red Shirts was focused on defending the 1997 people's constitution - the first in Thailand's history that was drafted in a popular, democratic manner with participation of elected officials from all the regions - against the imposition of the new 2007 constitution, drafted by handpicked people appointed by the military junta.

 

The grassroots growth of the Red Shirts rapidly increased the size and influence of the group following a series of repressive actions by the government. The country's most popular political party, Thai Rak Thai, was banned by a court ruling in 2007. The elected prime minister Samak Sundaravej was ousted from office for appearing on a cooking show. The People's Power Party, successor to Thai Rak Thai, was then also banned in 2008, and more than 100 democratically elected members of parliament were disqualified from politics for five years.

 

The understandable anger felt by many Thai citizens after seeing their popular will suppressed was underscored by systemic double standards exercised by the country's judicial system. One constitutional court judge who banned Samak also regularly did paid appearances on radio and taught at a private university.

 

When the pro-government elite movement, People's Alliance for Democracy, held disruptive rallies, invaded government buildings, and illegally occupied Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport in 2008, there was not one single arrest, trial or conviction. Instead, these same people are on television every day. In comparison, scores of Red Shirts have already been imprisoned, and those arrested in the most recent protests were processed and convicted in improbably swift trials.

 

It was all the more impressive that tens of thousands of these activists volunteered to sleep outside at the rally site in obvious discomfort, while risking their lives before the coming violence to make their point. They came to Bangkok to remind the ruling elites and the world that they also have constitutional rights as Thai citizens, that their votes should count too, no matter their level of wealth, class, and education.

 

But the distractions from these basic facts are numerous. The ruling military elite argues that the killing of almost 70 civilians (only one confirmed death of a military officer) over the past month is justified because they are armed - although most often with slingshots, homemade fireworks and bamboo sticks. The ruling military elite talks about the funding of the Red Shirts, as though these people are risking their lives for some reason other than the anger over having their votes stolen.

 

The unlawful deployment of force used by the Thai authorities against the protesters, their flip-flopping on the issues of elections and their unwillingness to meet the protesters' pleadings for negotiations to avoid violence speaks volumes about their legitimacy to govern.

 

But the facts speak for themselves, and the demands by the Red Shirts for new elections and real representative government must be dealt with in a sincere and orderly reconciliation effort.

 

Above all, the Red Shirts simply want the right to vote, have a say in who runs the country and how.

 

Robert Amsterdam is a human rights lawyer

 

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Better hope Ahbisit stays calm. He could find himself riding a Yellow backlash and I don't think he wants that.

[Pom Michael]

Julian,

 

You do know who that writer is - don't you?

 

Sorry - something is just not right up in your area if you didn't make the connection between that person.

 

Cheeers!

[ozpharlap]

J2 has his viewpoint. LizardKing has his.

 

And then there's the truth, which may be something else. "It would take authorities a day or two to clear the Ratchaprasong area, deputy army chief-of-staff Dapong Rattanasuwan said on Thursday night. According to Lt-Gen Dapong, security officials have entered the area on Thursday and found gas tanks that were wired with explosives and ready to go off hidden inside the Four Seasons hotel."

 

Rink

 

No matter what Menny Begin might have thought when he was running the Irgun in his younger days, no matter what Bobby Seale and the Black Panthers might have thought, no matter what the Weathermen might have thought, no matter what al-Qaida or the Taliban might have thought, no matter what Mr. Toxin might have thought, improvised explosive devices (such as this) are never a legitimate instrument of political discussion.

I take your point, which seems to be saying what I also stated.

 

You might want to add Abraham Lincoln to your list.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for the red-shirts, they were manipulated from the start, probably greed affected by offers of money and potential power, some acted out of sheer hooliganism, others were just crooks. The government should have acted much quicker, and more decisive, then they did. However, I read on other threads that that is the Thai way, slow to act, everyone has a hand in someone else's pocket, or pockets. This is not something new in Thai politics, maybe on a different scale, but nothing new.

 

We can only hope that the Thai government compensates those who has been affected by this tragedy.

[acockasian]

He is a "human rights lawyer" ???

 

Chutzpah....had he murdered his parents he would beg the court for sympathy as he is an orphan.

 

Julian...not a personal attack...but if this is how you "post the facts" then I feel sorry for you.

[Pom Michael]

Ok, so instead of being tangential - let's point Julian in the right direction:

 

"What to expect from Thaksin's new lobbyist Robert Amsterdam"

 

http://www.thai360.com/fbb/showtopic.php?tid/537304/

 

[Julian2]

Ok,ok. I know who he is and who's paying him.

If you read the foreign media you may note a groundswell of sympathy for the Thai government after what a lot of people considered to be biased reporting against them. The Murdoch press in Australia in particular is now showing a more sympathetic view.

Amsterdam is just a card that Thaksin has now played. He's an old hand at media manipulation so it had to be expected.