Usa Thread

[Pom Michael]

I have gained more respect for President Bush AFTER he left the office. He really has been a model of what an ex president should do.

[dean]

The only thing that I've noticed about GWB that is commendable is his reluctance to comment on Obama's actions or any policies of the Obama administration. He hasn't performed any humanitarian missions, as have Carter, Clinton and even his father. Its only been 4 yers since he left office. I may change my mind about his post presidency in 10-15 years, depending on what he does in that time.

[Flashermac]

I understood that GWB has been doing quite a bit for Africa ... quietly and under the radar.

[Steve]

The only thing that I've noticed about GWB that is commendable is his reluctance to comment on Obama's actions or any policies of the Obama administration. He hasn't performed any humanitarian missions, as have Carter, Clinton and even his father. Its only been 4 yers since he left office. I may change my mind about his post presidency in 10-15 years, depending on what he does in that time.

GWB has actually been the norm. The tradition of ex Presidents was never to criticize the present President. The thinking is that no one except an actual President knows how difficult and exasperating the job is.

Carter broke with that tradition. Its one of the things I lost a lot of respect with him over. Not that he wasn't right in what he said but it was a tradition that he was also a beneficiary of with Ford and Nixon. Clinton has also broken with tradition as well. If you go back in history, ex Presidents stayed quiet about the current President.

 

As for GWB, Africa is the one standout in his tenure. He sent an unprecendet amount of money to fight AIDS there. He has done more for AIDS in Africa than any person, nation or entity some have said.

 

I think in time he will be 'forgiven' for the wars. Americans often take pity on bad ex-Presidents. Again, I use Nixon as an example. He is not so much hated but pitied after his death. I think GWB will be the same. I don't see any other accomplishment that can make historians and Americans' memories overlook his negatives. Johnson had the Civil Rights Act and that made people overlook Vietnam to some extent. Nixon had the visit to China and that was brought up as a positive (I would also suggest a plethora of progressive legislation as well, Endangered Species Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, etc.)

 

What can GWB hang his hat on? Other than we didn't have a domestic terrorist event during his tenure? Nothing will save Cheney I think. He'll go down as one of the most famous VPs for all the wrong reasons. Very few VPs are remembered. He and Gore will be for different reasons.

[zzzz]

What can GWB hang his hat on? Other than we didn't have a domestic terrorist event during his tenure? ...

9/11 happened during GWB's tenure through neglect by his administration.

[Flashermac]

And it could just have easily have happened under Slick Willy, who until 9 months earlier had been the Big Kahuna.

 

 

<< Ever since the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the Clinton Administration regarded Islamist terrorism as a pesky law enforcement problem rather than a national security threat, and aside from lobbing a few cruise missiles at what turned about to be an aspirin factory, very little was done to take it seriously, even as the attacks increased in frequency and severity.

 

As part of this approach, Assistant Attorney General Jamie Gorelick built what amounted to a wall that prevented different intelligence agencies from sharing information on the grounds it might affect the terrorist's legal rights.

 

So intel operations like Able Danger, who had actually tracked the hijackers from Afghanistan to Germany and identified Mohammed Atta and most of the other hijackers months before 9/11 were prevented by the Clinton Justice Department's official policy from sharing this intel with other agencies.

 

Had the FBI been alerted to what Able Danger knew, Atta's name could have been put on a list that would have tagged him as someone to be watched from the moment he stepped off a plane in Newark, New Jersey. Surveillance of Atta, who lived openly in Florida for over a year, and who acquired a driver's license and even an FAA pilot's license in his real name, might well have made it possible for the FBI to stop the Sept. 11 attacks before they occurred. Except thanks to Gorelick's wall, the FBI wasn't given access to that information.

 

Even more poignantly, Gorelick was exempted from having to testify under oath in front of the 9/11 commission, none of this was examined by the commission in any detail and the Democrats on the panel were happy to gloss over it.

 

At this point, we also don't know exactly the extent of what the Clinton Administration concealed about 9/11, thanks to the theft of classified documents by former Clinton National Security adviser Sandy Berger. We do know that the government of the Sudan offered us Osama bin-Laden on a platter but the Clinton Administration refused to accept him. And that there were at least two other times we could have taken out bin-Laden but the orders weren't forthcoming from Mr.Bill, who had other pressing matters in the Oval Office to attend to. On one famous occasion, our CIA had bin-Laden's location pinpointed in Afghanistan and a missile targeted, but they simply couldn't find the president.

 

...

 

But one thing we do know is that if the Clinton Administration had taken Osama bin-Laden as the serious threat he was and had been more concerned with national security than some terrorist's potential legal rights, there was a definite chance that Osama bin-Laden would either be in U.S custody or have been halal hamburger courtesy of a tomahawk missile prior to 9/11. And that Mohammed Atta and the other hijackers might have been apprehended before 3,000 Americans were murdered.

 

There's much you can say about George W. Bush's presidency, but accusing him of being responsible for ignoring intel he never received and being responsible for not preventing 9/11 is a ridiculous premise and an obvious exercise in disinformation. >>

 

http://www.americant...ushs_fault.html

[zzzz]

And it could just have easily have happened under Slick Willy, who until 9 months earlier had been the Big Kahuna.

 

 

<< Ever since the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the Clinton Administration regarded Islamist terrorism as a pesky law enforcement problem rather than a national security threat, and aside from lobbing a few cruise missiles at what turned about to be an aspirin factory, very little was done to take it seriously, even as the attacks increased in frequency and severity.

 

As part of this approach, Assistant Attorney General Jamie Gorelick built what amounted to a wall that prevented different intelligence agencies from sharing information on the grounds it might affect the terrorist's legal rights.

 

So intel operations like Able Danger, who had actually tracked the hijackers from Afghanistan to Germany and identified Mohammed Atta and most of the other hijackers months before 9/11 were prevented by the Clinton Justice Department's official policy from sharing this intel with other agencies.

 

Had the FBI been alerted to what Able Danger knew, Atta's name could have been put on a list that would have tagged him as someone to be watched from the moment he stepped off a plane in Newark, New Jersey. Surveillance of Atta, who lived openly in Florida for over a year, and who acquired a driver's license and even an FAA pilot's license in his real name, might well have made it possible for the FBI to stop the Sept. 11 attacks before they occurred. Except thanks to Gorelick's wall, the FBI wasn't given access to that information.

 

Even more poignantly, Gorelick was exempted from having to testify under oath in front of the 9/11 commission, none of this was examined by the commission in any detail and the Democrats on the panel were happy to gloss over it.

 

At this point, we also don't know exactly the extent of what the Clinton Administration concealed about 9/11, thanks to the theft of classified documents by former Clinton National Security adviser Sandy Berger. We do know that the government of the Sudan offered us Osama bin-Laden on a platter but the Clinton Administration refused to accept him. And that there were at least two other times we could have taken out bin-Laden but the orders weren't forthcoming from Mr.Bill, who had other pressing matters in the Oval Office to attend to. On one famous occasion, our CIA had bin-Laden's location pinpointed in Afghanistan and a missile targeted, but they simply couldn't find the president.

 

...

 

But one thing we do know is that if the Clinton Administration had taken Osama bin-Laden as the serious threat he was and had been more concerned with national security than some terrorist's potential legal rights, there was a definite chance that Osama bin-Laden would either be in U.S custody or have been halal hamburger courtesy of a tomahawk missile prior to 9/11. And that Mohammed Atta and the other hijackers might have been apprehended before 3,000 Americans were murdered.

 

There's much you can say about George W. Bush's presidency, but accusing him of being responsible for ignoring intel he never received and being responsible for not preventing 9/11 is a ridiculous premise and an obvious exercise in disinformation. >>

 

http://www.americant...ushs_fault.html

You have to be careful what you read. Is this web site legit? Is it right wing?

[Steve]

With respect to Flash's post, I read similar things. The reason I heard for not accepting bin Ladin from the Sudanese was that the Justice department didn't feel it had enough of a case if he was put on trial in America. The connection was sometimes circumstantial and lacked physical evidence so I can understand the reasoning.

The priorities of the FBI was also drug enforcement. The bureaucratic emphasis at the time of both the Clinton and Bush administrations was not on terrorism but other things.

If Bush really was concerned with terrorism he had plenty of time since his election in '00 to find out about the hijackers. No one blames Bush for 9/11, its his actions afterwards that has tarnished his name and reputation. America has never been popular globally in many circles and we had universal sympathy and empathy post 9/11 and Bush miracuously turned that sympathy to loathing. Worse than it was before because even our friends were loathing us. Tony Blair may have supported us but the British people didn't. Same with our European allies.

The thousands of lives lost as well as the rapid deterioration of American civil liberties and erosion of basic constitutional rights, a near fatal financial collapse was, unfortunately, the main legacy of the Bush admistration. Again, there is no other positive event that can be seen during his tenure to sway historians as I mentioned with Johnson (Civil Rights) and Carter (who had the Camp David peace accords).

[unit731]

I think in time he will be 'forgiven' for the wars. Americans often take pity on bad ex-Presidents. Again, I use Nixon as an example. He is not so much hated but pitied after his death.

 

 

Many forget Nixon had a "secret plan" to end the Vietnam war. While campaigning.

What was the "secret" plan?

Anyone?

[unit731]

“WASHINGTON — The U.S. Congress on Friday approved a plan to ease nationwide air-traffic delays caused by federal spending cuts, seeking to calm irritated travelers but sparking a backlash from groups still being hit by budget cuts.â€

 

 

LINK