Guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Rather, it was borrowed fairly recently (i.e. withinthe last 100 years) from the Chinese immigrants who flocked here around the turn of the 20th century. IMHO a "crock" see how polite I'm becoming ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Says cardinalblue: But then again, even at a million baht dowery, are we really talking big money? All one can get in america would be a good used volvo for that. It is like saying that the husband is buying a car for the wife. We never put that topic under the third degree but at least they are getting a car out of it. Cardinalblue Doesn't seem so bad when you look at it that way. I also think about some of the amounts that my friends and colleauges spend on engagement rings 430,000bt - 1mm bt. I won't even get into the amounts spent for the weddings(850,000bt is the minimum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hi, [color:"red"] I seem to remember hearing sometime ago that sinsot is not a Thai tradition at all. Rather, it was borrowed fairly recently (i.e. within the last 100 years) from the Chinese immigrants who flocked here around the turn of the 20th century. [/color] As far as I know, it has been way over 100 years. From reading history of Ayuthaya time, there was a "sin sod". I maintian, it is a Thai tradition. Of course, the Chinese also has it. However, if ones want to compare Thai and Chinese, India, ones will find that the younger nation, in this case Thailand, must have adopted many cutural things from older nations. Believe me the "sin sod" has been around forever, in one form or another. Many Thais do NOT want to do the "sin sod" for these families do not want to be perceived that they sell their daughters. However, the "face" concept is usually involved (what else is new?) so many of them will do symbolic gestures. I know of a rich Thai women who got married 3 times within 10 years and her "sin sod" is bigger each time than the previous ones. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hi, [color:"red"] Thanks Jas, somehow I knew you'd be a bit of a rebel. [/color] Well, at the project hubby and I worked together in Nebraska, our Indian employees told hubby that with his quality, I should have paid the dowry for marrying him!! :: I agree that he has one or two very good qualities, so I have to work now becuase I did not pay the darn dowry :: :: :: The chance of me being a "kept" woman is nil because I did not pay the dowry :) Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabii Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Kasansal, I don't think you were wrong to post 2nd hand information - we all do that. I was just surprised that, after posting some very good 2nd-hand information, you excused yourself for posting bad information on the basis that it was 2nd hand. If we want to maintain our credibility each of us should critically examine the 2nd hand information we receive before passing it on. Best regards, JEff Says kasansal: To jefreyh, Ok, ok I was wrong posting second hand information, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Thanks - you're probably right. On the "face" side of things, I think there are two issues to consider here. Ok - the wife's family gain face if you dish out the sinsot, but I would maintain that in at least a few cases the foreigner stands to lose face by caving in to sometimes outrageous demands. There are two sides to every marriage and your wife's family should respect your cultural background as you should respect theirs. Cave in on this issue right at the start of the marriage and you might find you're looked down upon by the family for the duration. In an earlier post, I said I paid no sinsot as I didn't believe in it. I did discuss the matter with my wife and through her, her family beforehand, though. We came to a mutually satisfactory arrangement where everybody was happy. PS. I don't get imposed upon by my wife's family for handouts, probably as a result of this early action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I am currently seeing a Thai gal here in Sydney who i met on Bkk chat.She is from a wealthy Thai family who sent her here to study at uni and have set her up in a million dollar penthouse with her brother and sister both in private schools.She has told me her mother expects a 10 mio baht sinsot although this can be waived if the husband is farang.I'm tipping that mamma won't be casting an approving eye over any farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1000 Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 I did not, nor was asked to pay a dowry. All her family asked of me was to love and look after her. (One of her brothers did say I would pay dearly if I mistreated her though, Lol) Also they did know that I had a lot of expense with the frequent visits, the marriage and visa costs etc., plus getting her over to the UK. After we settled back in Thailand from the UK I bought a house and small farm in her name at her village for her future security, (with no lease to me) and also a bungalow in Pattaya, leased to me for 30 years, so no loss of face there. I?m pretty certain that the fact that she was a 29 year old widow was the reason I was not asked for the dowry, and also that her family owned a couple of houses, land and a rice farm. They even offered us some of their land on which to build a house, which we declined having found a reasonable property a few minutes drive from them. I really do get on well with them, her 10 year old daughter calls me daddy, and feel I?ve been accepted into the family. Personally I do feel that if the family has had one dowry from a previous marriage, why should they expect another every time their daughter re-married. Saying that, if they had insisted, I would have paid a reasonable amount. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Stick, I just got back from my Thai wedding in the Central Plains region. I struggled with the Sinsot issue from the time my wife and I decided to marry last July. In the area of deep cultural values there really is little room for compromise--one side has to buckle and accept something that feels very offensive. Now I had already been contributing to the educational costs of my wife's two sisters. Since the younger one will have more such costs in the near future I hoped that this discreet gesture would make the sinsot idea moot. Wrong. My wife's mother began to raise the issue insistently. She was worried by the loss of face if there were no sinsot. Let me explain that my wife's family are farmers and honest people, but without any exposure to farang culture. The father was willing to drop the idea saying that he did not sell lhis daughter. I suspected that he was just making the best of the situation and would have preferred getting something. As is often the case here in the West, the mother is much more committed to maintaining and enhancing social standing. (My mother was, too.) She kept bringing it up and asked, if I wouldn't give a sinsot, could she put up the cash herself so that I would go through the motions to save her face. If there is one thing more offensive to me than giving money for a wife it is faking it. So I said no. And they dropped the matter and never brought it up again. Then as it got closer to the date I reflected that I am taking there daughter away from them to farangland. They miss her a lot. Also, I have never been opposed to helping out with money since I am fortunate in having a good job. What stuck in my throat is the vulgarity of public display of giving--I would much prefer to make discreet contributions to the sister's education over time. But I also thought that since I am gaining a wonderful wife I should try to do something for the parents, who in fact made enormous sacrificies in raising her. And I thought further that, really, it is better to give people what they want, if you can, rather than what you think they should want. In the end I brought up the issue of sinsot again when we arrive in BKK and gave them a check for a moderate amount. Since they weren't expecting anything by this time they were pleased to have it and it makes a palpable improvement in the family finances. I gave it to them in a check and mentioned that if they wished to cash it and put up any other amount in cash for the ceremony that was fine with me. I know that some members of her father's family will have their hands out and wanted to give my father-in-law the chance to shelter some of it. He just said put the check in as it is. So, I feel it has worked out well. I have never told anyone here, even my best friend, that I paid. In the event that part of the ceremony was distasteful to me. They sprinkle some herbs or something over the sinsot and say some prayers. One old lady, whose connection to the family wasn't clear to me, pointedly picked up the check and inspected the amount column carefully. Certainly seems vulgar. I am glad I don't live in Thailand and have to cope with this face issues of this kind regularly. But I am glad I made the accommodation and I think my wife was very pleased also. So, that's my two cents worth. I don't think there is a ready answer. The nature of culture is to persuade us that the our culture is natural and correct. This simplifies living, but isn't true. Although we can try to understand other cultures sympathetically, on the most fundamental issues tolerance and compromise may not be available and one side, usually the less powerful, has to swallow hard. Anyway, best of luck on your marriage, the important thing. I hope you are both happy. Khun Pad Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiejohn Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Stick, I hope this query was prompted by my question to you... HA HA!!! Anyway the figures given by Kansansal's thai friend seem a joke, way too low. 100,000 for an educated thai under 28,I presume a good girl,would be more like 2 million in my experience, and that is an all Thai marriage as well.. I know level of society will of course dictate level of amount,so presume the friend is not "high" on the social ladderif he believes his figures are correct. My friends in Los are from the Chinese-Thai community and as such they deal in millions when talking of the Sin Sot issue. But for board members thinking of marriage to their Thai girlfriend,if she is not from the bar scene I'd advise you forget those figures !!! Also for farangs not to pay Sin Sot is a major loss of face for the farangs and this will NEVER be forgotten by your new relatives.... All The Best.....aussiejohn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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