Farang journey

[FIGJAM]

naiv said:

Please explain! Actually if you take one person of the lowest status of every culture they could easily compromise on "universal" standards. But of course, if you take one political or religious leader of every culture then they will never compromise on universal standards...

Sorry but I am not allowed to answer here, these (indeed interesting) discussions here are

 

 

Ciao, FIGJAM.

[Guest]

Now Pao,

 

if you will stay longer on this board you will find out that people here don't argue "agressively". I have nothing against a more "agressive" way of discussing, but it is no habit here.

I guess that Jasmine stopped to discuss with you because of your "agressive" way.

 

Now, the cowboy picture is older than 10 years. Cowboys had to take the law in their own hands (colts) because usually there were no sheriffs around.

 

I am on your side concerning your examples. The only problem that I have with you is, that you seem to believe that the USA is the best democracy on the world. I could give you many examples to proove otherwise. But I believe that from the powerful countries, the USA is one of the better ones. And I am quite happy that the USA leads and not some big europeen countries. Was this too much politics?

 

Now, do you believe in universal standards? Or just in the law of the fist? You seem to contradict yourself a little bit.

 

Best regards

[Guest]

Sorry but I am not allowed to answer here, these (indeed interesting) discussions here are

 

Hmm, you seem to be nerved?

Can you burn the american flag in the USA without consequences? No? It is only another way of expressing your thoughts, isn't it? I think it isn't yet forbidden but discussion to forbid it are under way.

I mention this just to illustrate that other countries have other sensibilities.

 

Best regards

[FIGJAM]

naiv said:

Now Pao,

 

if you will stay longer on this board you will find out that people here don't argue "agressively".

Actually, naiv, I am on this board from a longer time than you (just look at the reg date) and I have seen all kinds of arguing here.

Anyhow, one of the things that I like of this board is the way it is moderated (compared to the other LOS based ones).

I perfectly understand why politics is off topic, and that is one of the bigger things I don't like about LOS.

The lack of rights and freedom of speech.

 

 

naiv said:

I have nothing against a more "agressive" way of discussing, but it is no habit here.

I guess that Jasmine stopped to discuss with you because of your "agressive" way.

Jasmine hasn't _discussed_ with me, she, in this threads and in a past one, has never actually replied to my points.

I don't think I have been insulting or verbally abused her, have I? Nor I think she is scared by a few words on a monitor from someone who is thousands of kms away and doesn't know anything about her real self.

I just think she has nothing to say.

Exactly like the "holiday maker" who you should have seen in a past thread how abusive, insulting and aggressive has been with me... (and I didn't have big problems with it either, to be honest)

 

 

naiv said:

Now, the cowboy picture is older than 10 years. Cowboys had to take the law in their own hands (colts) because usually there were no sheriffs around.

The cowboy picture you describe is much older than 10 years, but the cowboy thing referring to a particular man isn't 10 years older... It started, to be precise, with the beginning of the "war on terror"...

Let's not "hide behind a finger".

 

 

naiv said:

I am on your side concerning your examples. The only problem that I have with you is, that you seem to believe that the USA is the best democracy on the world.

Yes I do.

(but I would define it the less anti-democratic, not the most democratic country, to be precise)

 

 

naiv said:

I could give you many examples to proove otherwise.

And I would be glad to comment on them, but this seems not to be the place...

 

 

naiv said:

But I believe that from the powerful countries, the USA is one of the better ones. And I am quite happy that the USA leads and not some big europeen countries. Was this too much politics?

What do you mean by "from the powerful countries"? Is there any "not so powerful" country which can be considered more democratic than any western country?

Anyway, I don't know if this is too much politics (the mods will tell us I'm sure ), but at times I would like to see the world ruled by the Muslim law of Sharia or by the rules of some african tribes, by the Asian/Thai "standards" and values or even by some European country like France or Germany.

Just to have the pleasure to see the asses of the western PC idiots getting kicked...

 

 

naiv said:

Now, do you believe in universal standards? Or just in the law of the fist? You seem to contradict yourself a little bit.

No, I do believe in what you call "universal standards", but I do believe that the only ones to believe them to be "universal" are us westerners...

The Universal Declaration of the Human Rights is, sadly, just a product of the western civilization.

 

 

Ciao, FIGJAM.

[FIGJAM]

naiv said:

Hmm, you seem to be nerved?

Can you burn the american flag in the USA without consequences? No? It is only another way of expressing your thoughts, isn't it? I think it isn't yet forbidden but discussion to forbid it are under way.

I know in Italy it's prohibited but I know in Italy everyone is free to talk about politics, about our leader and any other party on any media (TV, radio, magazines, m.boards etc.) without any kind of problem or fear.

Burning a flag is not a way to express your thought, it's a way to "act" and "practice" your ideas against your country.

In the West you are free to say that you think shit of your own country or its leaders, but you are not free, of course, to destroy your country or actively act _against_ your country.

Anyway, penalties to such offences (wherever they actually are offences) are much lighter in the west than everywhere else. And that is just because of our values and consideration for the freedom.

How many burning flags have you ever seen in non-western countries (I mean their own flag, of course) and how many burning US flags in US (by even non US citizens)?

 

 

naiv said:

I mention this just to illustrate that other countries have other sensibilities.

The problem is that others' "sensibilities" allow such things as the ones I mentioned earlier...

Got my point?

 

 

Ciao, FIGJAM.

[Guest lazyphil]

Guys knock off the politics eh --you were asked already by elef and pattaya127--back to farang journey (whatever that all meant :

[Guest]

Actually, naiv, I am on this board from a longer time than you (just look at the reg date)

 

Sorry, my mistake! (I was only reading "newbie").

 

Is there any "not so powerful" country which can be considered more democratic than any western country?

I definitely consider Switzerland as less anti-democratic as the USA. And so does Gregory A. Fossedal, a american politologe. (See http://ni4d.us/library/fossedal_direct_democracy_in_switzerland.htm )

 

Just to have the pleasure to see the asses of the western PC idiots getting kicked...

 

This I call "aggressive". Ok, I don't know you and it seems as if you have some reason to write this. Actually I have spent some time on a political german webboard and it was full of these so called western PC ****.

 

The Universal Declaration of the Human Rights is, sadly, just a product of the western civilization.

 

Thanks for clarifying your position.

 

Best regards

 

P.S.: If you are interested in direct democracy (I wouldn't call any exclusively parlamentary government democratic), I recomend you strongly to read this book of Fossedal. He draws somewhat a too nice picture of Switzerland, but his goal to promote democracy even further than it allready exists in the USA or Switzerland is legitim, I think. (Sorry not to mention other countries, but if you posters know any other country with as much experience with referendums and initiatives, please tell me)

[Guest]

The problem is that others' "sensibilities" allow such things as the ones I mentioned earlier...

Got my point?

 

Yes, I have. Actually I assessed your character incorrectly

(and believed that you don't want to take into account other countries sensibilities in any case.)

 

Concerning burning flags: I know that the US flag is the most burned one. But I don't care if anyone burns the swiss flag. I have never understood why this act gets so much attention. (Ok, it has a powerful symbolic meaning, but what is the difference between saying that you don't like the western values and showing it by burning a flag?)

 

No, in the USA there are also sensibilities which cause a lot of pain (for example the consumption of drugs and all the wars related to the illegal status of it). But I agree with you that other countries should clean their house before they criticise.

 

Oh, the mods will ban me. I think we should stop to discuss about this (at least here).

 

Best regards

[Guest]

Pattaya127 wrote:

There is nothing too wrong about a political statement or view, what we cut short is political argumentation, which usuallly comes soon after the initial statement.

 

Now I am really confused! :: :: ::

Political statements are allowed? But no argumentation? I always believed that it is more "civilised" to argue about politics than to make simple statements.

 

Guys knock off the politics

 

Ok, ok, I see that I let me go. Sorry this is a bad habit.

 

Best regards

[Guest]

Ok, back to farang journey:

5. Self Actualization

4. Esteem

3. Love and belonging

2. Safety

1. Physiological

 

Let us assume that many farangs are on step 4., ie. they have material security and grew up in a loving family.

Now in the western countries, the suicide rate is much higher than in poorer countries like thailand. Does this mean that many farangs who have more or less without any effort reached step 3 (they are born in it) don't see the next step lying before them? And seeing no goal they just kill themselves? Or consume exessively drugs? Or risk their lives in fancy new types of sport (and go back to stop 2)?

 

I am not so sure if we farangs are any further on this scale.

 

Best regards