Trade getting larger....

[shygye]

[color:"green"] Even their lone visible domain, Soi Thaniya, is isolated from the greater PatPong. [/color]

 

Huh? :: Have you never been to NEP, Soi Cowboy, or Patpong? There are loads of Japanese and other Asians in the gogos. Often out numbering the "farangs".

[Guest]

pattaya127 said:

Guys, are you sure that japanese men who P4P are not labeled sex tourists too?

 

Three years ago i was completely naive of the bad reputation globally that Thailand has, naive P4P, 'sexpat' etc. Naive, naive, naive. And then, I read a Time magazine, or Newsweek, about planeloads of Japanese men on organized tours that were heading to LoS. It was presented as an Japanese asian sexpat 'issue' in this article. The knowledge of the Japanese travelor and thus his 'low intent' was essentially bad in and of itself, as presented by the author. Being Mr. Naive farang myself I recall putting down the mag and scoffing at those crude sorts.

 

Then I came, saw, paid the BF and awoke smitten myself.

 

And I'm so glad to be a crude sort myself today.

 

Anyway, all I wanted to add is in spite of this press there is still far less association in the publics mind between asian sexpats than there is farang sexpats. I really do believe there is more discretion on their parts than farangs. Their profile is low whiloe farang is neon bright. Thus IMO farangs are partly to blame.

[Guest]

shygye said:

[color:"green"] Even their lone visible domain, Soi Thaniya, is isolated from the greater PatPong. [/color]

 

Huh? :: Have you never been to NEP, Soi Cowboy, or Patpong? There are loads of Japanese and other Asians in the gogos. Often out numbering the "farangs".

 

Japanese and Asian outnumbering farangs? :: Not ever, in my [albeit limited] experience.

 

Lemme call my travel agent and do some more research on this. I'll get back to you later. Anyone know when high season is for Japan?

[Guest]

sfkinz-- We're for sure kindred spirits. That last post was uncannilly me.

 

Your: "My point was that the farang concept is recent and highly unusual and will be forced to evolve into a more discreet, and thus acceptable, form (as curently practiced, for the most part, by both the domestic and foreign Asian markets)" is Spot On! me thinks.

 

From what I've read from the Post and Nation of Thai Rak Thai capaign it seems to take great offense, and justifiably so, with the farang model of neon-venues-in-your-face.

[sfinkz]

Huh? have you never been to NEP, Soi Cowboy, or Patpong? There are loads of Japanese and other Asians in the gogos. Often outnumbering the "farangs."

___________________________________________________

 

Not this century I haven't. There have always been Asian tourists in these go go establishments (and why not?--it's worth a look once or twice), however, and a dearth of Thai nationals. Thaniya has been carved out as private member clubs (and the hostesses there don't hang on poles), for the most part, for Japanese expats. Asian tourists, therefore, desirous of this entertainment are relegated to NEP, SC and PP (and their beach resort equivalents). I would also challenge the assertion that Asian tourists often outnumber the farangs in these locales (unless a Taiwanese tour group pulls up to Walking Street early in the evening). I can say with certainty, however, that there are more Asian tourists in LOS than farang. The fact that farang tourists, in lesser visitor arrival numbers, predominate the highly visible go go scene is only further evidence that they have a predisposition to be labeled as sex tourists.

[..]

Pop yer head into Rainbow 1, Rainbow 2 (NEP) or Baccara (SC) sometime...

 

Cheers,

SD

[Guest]

But here is where I confused the argument; when discussing foreign Asian sex tourists as contrasted to farangs I mistakenly made comparisons to the domestic scene as it is often rationalized here that the farang model is appropriate because the Thais practically invented prostitution. My point was that the farang concept is recent and highly unusual and will be forced to evolve into a more discreet, and thus acceptable, form

OK, I think I understand your point now. And if I understood it correctly, it is a good point.

 

The Farang model does differ radically from the Thai and Asian model, and I do think this is why some Thais see it as more of an embarrassment than the Asian scenes. I also agree that pressure will be applied for the scene to evolve into a more discreet, and thus, acceptable form.

 

In fact, I think we are seeing that already. Three examples immediately come to mind.

 

First, the showing policy. My tastes run toward more showing (I may have lived here close to ten years, but I am still a Farang), but perhaps there is a silver lining here. AngelWitch has been quite clever in putting on a good show without showing. Maybe other bars will become equally clever. Maybe I am dreaming.

 

Second, when Sukhumvit Soi 10 was razed, many Thais in my office were delighted by the result, although the brazen nature of the action troubled them and attendant publicity troubled them even more. They hated the bar scene on Sukhumvit Soi 10 because it was so visible - as you were driving down Sukhumvit you would see Thai BGs trying to drag Farangs into the bars while they walked down Sukhumvit. Very much in your face, and very impolite. A few even made the comment that, although they didn't think NEP was a good place, it was certainly much better than Soi 10. It is much harder to see NEP than the old Soi 10 bars.

 

Second, the new venues, such as Gullivers and new discos, are not as brazen as some of the old NEP and Soi Cowboy bars and seem to be more acceptable. My best guess is that the p4p scene for Farangs will be pushed in this direction. It won't be like the Chinese or Japanese places (how many farangs like to sit in small rooms and sing Karoke?), but instead be pressed into the direction of places such Gullivers, CM2 and perhaps Soi 33. Indeed, you can see a tiny bit of Soi 33 in some of the newer NEP bars.

[sfinkz]

"...any where you look in (San Francisco), like any city, you will see (sex establishments) fluorish."

__________________________________________________

Well I did have a walk around today. Didn't see anything resembling this discussion. Out of curiousity thought of asking a cab driver but wasn't sure what to ask for. A gambling hall, you say? Fluorish, you say?

 

 

Suadum: "Pop yer head into Rainbow 1...sometime..."

___________________________________________________

...and? (Very nearly did last month, for the nostalgia mostly as this was once one of my power spots, but only made it as far as the beer bar as there was enough stimuli there and it was such a lovely evening out and figured it was better left to memory, fearful I would find it static and then fled the scene for elsewhere. What did I miss?)

[pattaya127]

Farangs, on the other hand, because of their appearance and more boisterous behavoir, stand apart as a pill on such fabric and thus easier to recognize and label.

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I do understand, but I thought sex "tourist" was penned by westerners, and PC people. Do thais really call farangs in nightlife sex tourists? I mean, also in thai as well?

[pattaya127]

Their profile is low whiloe farang is neon bright.

-----------------------

Maybe, but anyone who has seen a drunk japanese obnoxiously hitting on farang women, and not understanding any part of "NO!" as i witnessed, may not buy this argument all the time. I mean, we were in the Lai Thai GH (Chiang Mai), pretty much for travelers, couples and all that, and every afternoon, the guy would bring a different Bfine. I felt like telling him to get the fuck off to Pattaya. At least there, they know how to cheat obnoxious drunks! :onfire: