soongmak Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 They are bad examples because they have nothing to do with PC. Yeah, yeah, You told me that in your last post. I asked you to come up with a better example. Still waiting for that. Cheers, soongmak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 To clear something up: I do not think that these threads are PC or anti-P4P. I think that those who complain about the change in the board do feel that this is the case however. That's why I referred to these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagoturner Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 "and I thought taste was the only thing 'not' included in PC" Well... It's a bit like the covering of table legs... Toilet roll covers... etc. One man's idea of good taste can be another man's vulgarity. "but then dont you define PC just for yourself, i.e. you select exactly for yourself what you find PC or not ?" Yes... Which is why I think we should be cautious when judging others. We can decide what we will and won't say but it becomes dangerous, in my opinion, when we decide what others should say. "But it still is a publuc board, whatever one post here is open to criticism, positive AND negative, I mean if you cannot stand the heat then..... " Get out the kitchen... Which I kind of have. "true, but to go further in your example, if that poster also publicises or advocates the non-use of condom ( used by me earlier as an example ) then PC has nothing to do with all replies said poster would get." I don't know... I think it kind of does... But then, as I think we agree, what is PC varies from individual to individual. If someone, either in passion or deliberately, does not use a condom is anyone going to help or change him by criticising him for it. If a post was made where someone said that sex without a condom was completely right and rational and everyone should forget about all that AIDS nonsense then he's starting an argument (albeit a silly one) which you can ignore or get involved with. If he merely describes having had sex without a condom then do we really need a number of posts jumping on him ? The same poster might have gone on to tell a story of how he caught an STD but felt so incensed at being attacked that he changed his mind. When you attack someone's actions you attack them and when you attack people they either run off or stand their ground. It's very rare for someone who has been attacked say "Oh I see your point... Quite right..." Because egos become enflamed. It's why apart from the last couple of days, which have been fun but time consuming, you very rarely see me involved in debates here. "I am sorry that you resigned, I was not aware of this, when did that happen ?" Just yesterday. I didn't feel I could really add too much as a moderator when I haven't been to Thailand for almost five years. It had nothing to do with the recent disagreements other than that they reminded me that I didn't really know what people were talking about any more. I'll continue posting stories both here and in the premium area though. "here you are mixing up your arguments...." Well... I always mix arguments. I know you shouldn't but I can't help it. There is, however, a certain similarity between the tone of ex whorefuckers to reformed drug addicts and people who have given up smoking. The kind of "you're not still doing that are you... How very vulgar..." kind of thing. I understand why. If you are an expat living in Thailand you don't want to be seen as only having one reason to be there. The general attitude in the wide world to almost any male who chooses to remove himself to Thailand or have a Thai wife is that he is and always will be a hardcore sex tourist unable to have any "normal" kind of relationship. I was married to a Thai woman and living mostly in the UK for seven years. I know and have some sympathy. The thing is that you can't reform outside opinions by criticising those who admit to still being there for the sexual opportunities. It just comes across as fake. I like all the stories and take them as that. They may be true they may not be true but I find them entertaining. I am now a total outsider. I don't have anything to do with Thailand and I don't have anything to do with the bars. I have a son who is half Thai but I'm a single parent and that's about it. I write the odd story and read the odd story and I enjoy this without being too bothered by greater implications. If I keep talking I know I'll drift off into some absurd extending metaphor about toilet roll covers so I'd better stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Yo Jago, First of all I am sorry you resigned, I for one will miss your input. I really am. As for the above arguments, are you not mixing vulgarity and ethics ? Vulgarity is not something I would ever advocate, even the tone or use of language, but yes, that is very personal. Ethics here, amongst whoremongers , is something to be watched carefully. Again, the example of non-use of condom. I dont really care what kind of disease any bragger would get by not using a condom when 'visiting' a 'whore. But imagine he does this with many whores, at the end he endangers my and your life. That is ethics and thats why something like this will draw lots of flack from many members. It has not even anything remotely to do with PC. Please do stay onboard and please keep giving us your point of view. stimulating for all. Cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 soongmak said: They are bad examples because they have nothing to do with PC. Yeah, yeah, You told me that in your last post. I asked you to come up with a better example. Still waiting for that. Cheers, soongmak I don't provide any examples because I don't know of any. Sorry but I don't think criticism whether in a flame or discussion questioning anothers motives and methods equates to PC or the board having an anti-P4P brigade. Does not add up to me. Even the "whore" thread although it may be an exercise in anti-"PC" for jago and others is not demonstrating that the board is too PC or anti-P4P. Seems to me that no one is saying that you can't use the word "whore" or disagrees that it can be used to refer to a prostitute, rather people are saying that when you look at the meaning of the word and how it is used, it is a very negative word and based on their experiences and interactions they don't view the women in a negative or vulgar way. That doesn't sound like PC to me. PC as far as I understand it is supposed to be a protective measure, not a term for people who disagree and have varying opinions. PC would be KS stating that YOU cannot use the word "WHORE" on his board because it would offend and harm those who are prostitutes. There is nothing PC about criticizing someone for not using a condom in a country rife with HIVor calling a farang a "cheap charlie" because you know he purposely attempts to pay below market rates in a predatory way when dealing with those he knows he is taking advantage of. Like I said before I can't provide you with examples from this board because I don't know of any aside from the rules banning certain topics because KS is concerned ( rightly so) with running afoul of the local authorities. I think the anti-PC brigade is hyper sensitive to criticism and views that don't agree with theirs. I suspect alot of it is simply baggage and resentment that they hold over from bad experiences and dealings in their home countries. Maybe this is why some of them sound like borderline misogynists when they refer to the women in their homelands and you definitely see the spillover when they refer to thai women, ESPECIALLY those women in the prostitution trade. Funny, I never heard the term "Feminazi" until I started reading Thai nightlife boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Khunsanuk, You wanted to know ways in which the board is viewed, what makes it tick and suggestions on improvement. Seems as if "PC" is an major issue to some. Unfortunately, I don't know how you would address it as far as improving the board is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawguy Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 The larger question, and I think this is now being addressed by the moderators of the trip report thread, is that a trip report like the examples given are not opinion pieces. There is really nothing to agree or disagree with. They are honest reports of member experiences. Knowing about other people's experiences is valuable, especially, and oddly, if they are doing things you might think put you at risk. The amount of wrath poured onto these trip reporters was excessive. The vehemence seemed personal. Just as the expression "WTF" seems excessive for this discussion. Excessive language sets a tone that this is getting personal. There are other ways to say such things, like "why are you." Gaw Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 But what you seem to forget ( on purpose ? ) is that comments and criticism was given to posts outside of trip reports. As far as I recall, I have never seen a heated violent thread in trip reports....... Cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Not in reply to you, we agree on all this, but to me, PC means being of one mind about one thing, and pretexting it's the way it has to be. Which is exactly what the proponents of using "whore" for ALL sex workers are doing. They insist that's what the girls have to be labeled as, and that it's an objective label, with no negative connotation to it. Feminazi techniques reversed, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belem Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Spot on. Unlike the Delphi days, the nightlife section doesn't provide adequate info IMO. Like you said, it's a combination of some people being driven away to other boards like Bkktonight and Nanapong and some members not posting due to fear of being flamed by PC posters and moderators. I know I don't post on this board as much as I did when it was on Delphi. When I was in Pattaya recently, the hotels were fully booked, but there were not many customers in a lot of the bars which was uncharacteristic being the peak season. There was definitely a different feeling in the air compared to a few years ago, not as much fun. I could make the same comparison with how this board has changed since the old days. Maybe the people(more family oriented) who visit Thailand have changed and this board now mirrors that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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