5000 Hmong from LOS headed to California

[Old Hippie]

Fly,

 

As always, please document and elaborate And yes, currently, I live inb an area with many Hmong and Thai and Lao, and a few Cambodians, have a Thai grocery up the block!

[Guest]

i am not really the right person. a good american friend of mine though was very much involved in that issue. as a thank you his place here was wiretapped, he got deaththreads, was followed - the whole game.

basically, the CIA trained hmong soldiers, i think it was around 2000, and parachuted them into vietnam. it was a fuck up. they were all considered captured and killed.

their families were relocated into the US, got some money for their husbands/fathers presumed dead. and that was it, just another thing from the indochina war aera.

 

well, until some of those blokes very embarrassingly appeared alive in some refugee camps along the borders after having spent more than a decade in vietnamese prisons and wanted to be reunited with their families, and of course their backpay for the years spent in prison. the wrong moment, when all was on the way to be fine again between the US and vietnam.

so, they were rejected, dicredited, not acknowledged as paid US soldiers. it was enormous efforts to get them accepted. it destroyed many careers (and some rumors are around that a former CIA chief did not drown but was somewhat offed as he was getting involved in the issue).

all in all it was nothing than shameful.

 

but look around - there will be much better information out there than i can ever give you. i think even 60 minutes did a thing about it many years ago.

[Guest]

flyonzewall said:

i am not really the right person. a good american friend of mine though was very much involved in that issue. as a thank you his place here was wiretapped, he got deaththreads, was followed - the whole game.

basically, the CIA trained hmong soldiers, i think it was around 2000, and parachuted them into vietnam. it was a fuck up. they were all considered captured and killed.

their families were relocated into the US, got some money for their husbands/fathers presumed dead. and that was it, just another thing from the indochina war aera.

 

well, until some of those blokes very embarrassingly appeared alive in some refugee camps along the borders after having spent more than a decade in vietnamese prisons and wanted to be reunited with their families, and of course their backpay for the years spent in prison. the wrong moment, when all was on the way to be fine again between the US and vietnam.

so, they were rejected, dicredited, not acknowledged as paid US soldiers. it was enormous efforts to get them accepted. it destroyed many careers (and some rumors are around that a former CIA chief did not drown but was somewhat offed as he was getting involved in the issue).

all in all it was nothing than shameful.

 

but look around - there will be much better information out there than i can ever give you. i think even 60 minutes did a thing about it many years ago.

 

Alleged events have a way of becoming exaggerated as time passes...old "war stories". Cynicism, conspiracy plots, and "secret wars" are combined/hatched by the 100's. You can get more than your fill by dropping by Washington Square any afternoon. I'm quite certain that the great majority of these "refugees" weren't even born until the 80's or 90's. And a great number, no doubt, never fought "for" U.S. interests. Anyway, while you seem to believe that the U.S. has some kind of obligation to the adult kids and grand kids of some former allies, I don't. Fact is, Hmong have continued to resist the communist Lao government for years on their own...and not at the behest of the U.S.

[Guest]

>>>Alleged events have a way of becoming exaggerated as time passes...old "war stories". Cynicism, conspiracy plots, and "secret wars" are combined/hatched by the 100's. <<<

 

 

well, than i would advise you to check your facts. go look it up.

 

 

>>>I'm quite certain that the great majority of these "refugees" weren't even born until the 80's or 90's.<<<

 

you mean, like 50 year old men?

again, check your facts.

 

 

 

>>>Fact is, Hmong have continued to resist the communist Lao government for years on their own...and not at the behest of the U.S. <<<

 

oh, is that so?

where do you think does the money trail leads to?

and personally knowing several foreigners and thais who fought together with the hmong in the eighties and nineties it appears to me that they were not that on their own.

 

 

>>>Anyway, while you seem to believe that the U.S. has some kind of obligation to the adult kids and grand kids of some former allies, I don't. <<<

 

first of all - they US has generally shown very little responsibility towards their allies, such as the mustang armies, the kham rebels, the hmong, the shia after gulf war 1, etc.

then, i case of the hmong, the responsibility is rather clear as the hmong were during the indochina war trained and equipped by the US, had lossed going into the hundredthousands. more than half of the surviving hmong had to leave laos after the US pulled out, the rest were treated not that nice by the laotian government.

 

just read history. that is something which goes back a bit longer than 4 years, if i may say so.

[Guest]

>>>Anyway, while you seem to believe that the U.S. has some kind of obligation to the adult kids and grand kids of some former allies, I don't. <<<

 

 

actually, thinking about it, i bet you would not have made that statement in the presence of tony poe, or the ravens, air america veterans, or all the other green barets and special forces who fought with the hmong.

[vegasdave49]

If you havent read The Raven's you should. It is a facinating look into what went on back then. Even if you dont agree with the politics of the actions. Then I suggest you take and extended trip into Laos. It is a wonderful, facinating, and beautifull place. Go out to the plain of jars. You will be facinated not only with the mysterious stone jars, but, with the crater filled countryside. You will be amazed that the locals are literaly mining the unexploded bombs, to be used for many different puroposes. To think that the we (the US) wont help those that helped us just pisses me off to no end. Lets face it in just one generation the adaptable and hard working mong will become genuine americans. They will pay taxes, be educated, drive new cars with insurance, wont pretend they dont understand english to avoid resposibilty. They won't make me have push a button on my phone just to hear a message in english. These are the type of immigrants that make america stronger and a better place to live. But alas we continue to freak out about it. All the while allowing unfeterred illegal resource draining "guest workers" to flood into the country. All under the guise of "no one will do that work" BS! Imigrants like the Mong will not only do that type of work, but they will strive to move up the ladder. Odds are their children will use that type of work to learn responsibilty, and to work their way through school ect. as opposed to it being the ending point it will be a begining point. Gee sounds llke the way was back in the old days. Maybe that is just to much of an American way of doing things. My feeling is that kids in the US today are so spoiled that they just wont work, the want careers, well the starting place is to get a job, any job for starters. Instead we have this whole sub class that is relagated to doing it for them. It is not fair to anyone, and it weakens our country. Importing poverty is not a way to build or keep a country healthy. At least with the Mong we will get a small injection of imigrants that will help us move towards a better future. Whew what a rant. (let the flames begin)

[pattaya127]

i bet you would not have made that statement in the presence of tony poe, or the ravens, air america veterans, or all the other green barets and special forces who fought with the hmong.

----------------------

Why? They have adopted hmong orphans?

[Guest]

>>>If you havent read The Raven's you should.<<<

 

 

i did. and yes, it's a fascinating (and partly revolting book).

 

 

 

 

>>>Then I suggest you take and extended trip into Laos. It is a wonderful, facinating, and beautifull place. Go out to the plain of jars.<<<

 

i did.

and i went a lot further. i had a look at how unexploded US ordonance was dug out under houses of where people live, had a look at villages which where mainly built from bombs and other warmaterial. i also spoke with people who have survived the bombings.

i also have relatives who were involved with the issue in those days, as well as closed friends who are involved in the issue today.

 

 

 

>>>To think that the we (the US) wont help those that helped us just pisses me off to no end.<<<

 

 

and it should piss you off, because that is what happened so many times over. go and spek with veterans of the mustang armies and the kham rebels (they do not have the publicity and lobbying the hmong have now).

 

 

 

 

>>>These are the type of immigrants that make america stronger and a better place to live.<<<

 

yeah, but it still doesn't make the world a better place to live. do you think those immigrants would not have preferred to stay in their ancestral lands?

you know, not everybody wants to live in the states.

 

 

 

 

>>>Importing poverty is not a way to build or keep a country healthy. At least with the Mong we will get a small injection of imigrants that will help us move towards a better future.<<<

 

funny, i have read statistics who say the exact opposite - that the hmong are the immigrants who have the most difficulties to adapt to live in the states. maybe that comes from the fact that they were not really that willing, they just had no other choice than immigrating into the US.

[Guest]

>>>Why? They have adopted hmong orphans?<<<

 

i only know what was written about tony poe, and according to that he has done a lot for the hmong community until he died.

apart from that, what has that to do with the context i have posted that statement?

[pattaya127]

compassion and selflessness, beyond what their govnmt does for hmongs/refugees or not.

I mean, these guys you talk about, they are true mavericks, true individuals, they need no govnmt to tell them how to lead their life, and you implied they have a loyalty towards the ethnies/tribes who fought along them. Sorry if i misread you.