about using the word racism...

[Torneyboy]

pattaya127 said:

I read this discussion and I realize we really miss having a few more thais on the board, who could speak from the thai side, about farang, racism, XXX pricing. Jasmine could help, here, but she oftens has the same POV as us, for living so long in the west.

 

 

Hi

 

Asked my wife what she thinks...explained the thread and some of the replies.

 

She said many ""falang"" have done the wrong thing by Thai ladies...""say will help with visa etc and then go back on the deal"

 

 

Just as one example...and look at a falang in a bad way....not all.

But leaves a bad taste.

 

Sorry..her words and my translation.

[Guest lazyphil]

WOW!!--This is fun!

 

<<not being able to speak the language enough he has not been sufficiently able to counter the stereotype that taxidriver has about farang>>

 

Note our taxi experiences here in the UK--I said the driver will not know her (the mrs) language/intergration level because often she'll just sit quietly till we get home or to wherver we're going (Thai party mostly ) but he gives her the courtesy to refer to her as my gf/wife/friend (depending if I give him details)--its basic manners, has nothing to, or should have nothing to do with deep seated resentment of falangs in general...GROW UP (not you!)

 

<<are you trying to tell me that every year hundred thousands of sextourists from wherever descend on the british islands? and if that would be so, you fellow brits would be absolutely cool about it?

fuckoff! you know as well as me that if that would be the case there would be mayham and corpses everywhere>>

 

 

Have you seen some of the women here?? ...aha, yes but in the 40's thanks to those Nazi bastards tens of 1000's of US GI's flocked here and stole lots of English roses :: andwere said to be over here and over paid over sexed, so we've had similar situations but seriously know we cant imagine how this feels. But I did have a Thai taxi driver bring back 5 videos to my mrs folks house which we left in his cab by accident (see kindness thread!)--just to clarify I dont have issues with Thai cabbies. I'm merely trying to balance your disgust of your FELLOW FALANGS in LOS--cut us some slack wont you, pretty please and dont be so condesending to the Thais!

[Guest]

>>>Note our taxi experiences here in the UK--<<<

 

 

there is a huge difference.

firstly, that cabby in london most definately has a vastly higher level of education than his collegue here in bangkok. secondly, in london there is no massive amount of sextourists, so no stereotype has evolved as here.

 

 

 

>>>...aha, yes but in the 40's thanks to those Nazi bastards tens of 1000's of US GI's flocked here and stole lots of English roses<<<

 

that is hardly comparable to the situation in thailand.

 

 

 

 

>>>I'm merely trying to balance your disgust of your FELLOW FALANGS in LOS--cut us some slack wont you, pretty please <<<

 

so you just argue for the sake of the argument?

excuse me, but i don't see any reason to be very proud of being a farang when i only look at what kind of creeps getting attracted to this place here. but i don't. i give you here a viewpoint which might be a bit offending to some, but nevertheless, should at least make you think.

 

 

 

 

>>>and dont be so condesending to the Thais!<<<

 

and that comment pisses me off. that is not necessary. do please point out where i am "condescending to the thais" here.

my arguments here are based on countless discussions with thai mates of mine on exactly that topic (yes - thais do discuss), in thai, and not on how i imagine thais might be be, because i am too lazy to learn the language, or too arrogant because i might be in the opinion that the whole world has to speak english.

 

 

 

 

you guys start pissing me off.

you have all those theories on how thais think, what makes them tick, and so on.

how many of you sprouting those opinions actually do speak sufficient thai beyond the ability to order some fried rice? how many of you actually have thai friends and thai mates beyond your wifes?

or is that place you all love so much just some little illusionary dreamland of yours, and everything is cool as long as the women spread their legs for you, and the blokes stay out of your sight? and you just want to keep the "LOS" of yours the way you dream it to be avoiding everything which might destroy your little dream of paradise?

 

sorry, end of rant.

[Torneyboy]

Hi fly

I have many Thai friends in my City.

We go out in a group ..lunch/dinners on a regular basis.

We talk about Thailand amoung other and many varied topics.

 

Very little if at all about the ""night"" life.

 

When my wife tells them about ""us"" going to a bar in LOS they ask questions that in the main end up in a giggle or no comment at all!

 

Am lucky as i get to meet many Thai students on the first visit usually the first few days( wifes sister has a migration office and brings many thais here for study)...they love to try their English out on me and VV.

 

I hear the word falang umteen times a day ..i know enough Thai to know they are referring to me and i do not get offended at all...just a term IMO.

 

It is a word they use all the time...sometimes at a first meeting the Thai will say to me "we call you falang" i just nod and say i know.

 

As some posters have said if an inflection is used it may be a rude comment in some minds.

 

I am enjoying learning the language and all i can about the culture..as i have chosen this life and want to make the most out of it...which means learning the language.

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Re Taksin buying Liverpool FC, on one of the news programmes last night they were interviewing scousers re their views on Taksin buying the club. The majority said they were unhappy with a foreigner buying the club, who can blame them after seeing Taksin appear to not know any players names when asked who his favourite player is.

 

STH

[Guest lazyphil]

Chill man--chill ::

 

<<firstly, that cabby in london most definately has a vastly higher level of education than his collegue here in bangkok>>

 

Says who?--I have a couple of mates who left school with no grades at 15/16 who are cabbys and I doubt their alone. And what coralation has education go to do with figuring out whos a 'low life sex tourist' or not, that just takes intuition. Please take seriously reverse scenarios of a Thai living in falangland, it counts, it matters!

 

<<excuse me, but i don't see any reason to be very proud of being a farang>>

 

I didn't, nor would I ask you to be 'proud' of being a falang, and I also dont expect you to be ashamed. We should be appraised individually not collectivly by anyone, not possible but in an ideal world.

 

<<some fried rice? how many of you actually have thai friends and thai mates beyond your wifes?>>

 

A few, going to Canvey Island over the weekend to visit one (quickest route from Cambridge anyone?)--personally I prefer my male falang friends to booze it up with etc (non LOS'ers, I like a life away from Thai stuff sometimes, I get overkill here!!)

 

<<and everything is cool as long as the women spread their legs for you, and the blokes stay out of your sight? and you just want to keep the "LOS" of yours the way you dream it to be avoiding everything which might destroy your little dream of paradise?>>

 

Naw, I spent time in my mrs bkk slum and it aint no paradise, I know, I was there in the raw. The Thai guys down there were cool, one guy got his guitar out out started playing a few Beatle tunes for me (music breaks down the language barriers!)--Lazy, arrogant to learn Thai??--me, I'm to fuckin' stupid, fuck you, dont nodd your head in agreement!!!....seriously, I cant get my head around it, thats the truth!

 

<<you have all those theories on how thais think>>

 

I'm still figuring the mrs out, I'll start work on the other 60 mill later!!

 

*****>>>and dont be so condesending to the Thais!<<<

and that comment pisses me off. that is not necessary. do please point out where i am "condescending to the thais" here*****

 

You do seem to want to champion Thais on every turn, almost like its your duty. Condesend the wrong word maybe?--just how I sometimes veiw it.

[pattaya127]

what do thais think of us farang? they view us as sexcrazed, rich and not very smart when it comes down on relationships, and having very little sense of propriarity? problem here is that they do have a point, because when going to the largest farang concentrations in thailand that is exactly what you see.

----------------------------

Well, i would blame a farang for having the same superficial view of thais you say they have of us, since local prostitution is not tip of the iceberg in Thailand (sex crazed), many women are single mothers or cheated (not very smart). IMO, this is not making a point, this is just staying at the surface of things. Thais and farangs alike are dead wrong in that matter. The question is, should both sides make an effort? Not really, farangs get pretty much what they expect from Thailand, and thais have no need of them in their daily life, beyond some tourism employement. Very few farangs and thais go beyond that.

About propriety, by and large, i find farangs behave quite nice in Thailand.

 

saying that he thought that would be OK to ask that because so many other farang want exactly that

-----------------------------

this may be a face saving excuse since you were angry. There is more than one city in the world, where taxi drivers entice single men in having a good time. In SF, they do too. It's a bit part of a T-driver CV. Taxi drivers often get a commision in bringing someone to a girl or a MP. I think he was doing his job, to make money and maybe you should have understood that, instead of having the mere mention of sex scandalizing you. IMO

 

 

for christs sake, guys, why are you so quick to point the fingers on others, and rarely have a closer look at yourselves?

every little incident of resentment towards you is interpreted as "racism"

--------------------------

finally, you are talking. I had been surprised in another thread (5 baht scam?) you went along the arguers of thai racism towards farangs.

 

 

 

you have all those theories on how thais think, what makes them tick, and so on.

-------------------------------

aahah, FlyW, that's wishful thinking! On my part at least. Theories? bring' em on! It would really create a lot of good discussions on the board .

 

Most of the time, i just read skin deep reactions based on what happened to the guy in the last 5 seconds he spent with this or that thai. make it last night if a thai chick ::.

 

And still, there are quite a few here with a sincere curiosity of thai life.

[pattaya127]

Fly, though i agree with you on what you said these last pages, I think you should stop pointing fingers at sex-crazed farangs. It may not have happened last month, but you also indulged in that crazed world when you first came here, therefore contributing to the image of the nighlife derelict farang. All your points and knowledge are still valid, but maybe should not always be made on the apparent piedestal you post them from. You are a great individual, and this shows that one can go crazy in LOS, and still not be pigeon-holed as a sex crazed, improper farang. More than a few labeled sex tourists are also cool individuals who are sensitive to the culture around them, or at least respectful.

[Pescator]

Hi FlyW,

 

first of all - because he is a farang (as per linguistic definition of that term).

and secondly, not being able to speak the language enough he has not been sufficiently able to counter the stereotype that taxidriver has about farang. even worse - he has only reinforced it. 3 years in thailand and not able to speak thai sufficiently to have a basic conversation?

 

Reinforced it what way? Did he tell the cab driver he spent 3 years in LOS?

 

you guys start pissing me off.

you have all those theories on how thais think, what makes them tick, and so on.

how many of you sprouting those opinions actually do speak sufficient thai beyond the ability to order some fried rice? how many of you actually have thai friends and thai mates beyond your wifes?

 

Now you are overdoing it. This is not only about speaking thai and that seems to be your major arguement.

This discussion seems to be about the connotations of the word "farang" and that doesn´t necessarily require fluency in thai language or culture to be able to contribute. Many non-thai speaking members on this board are perfectly aware of the connotations of this term.

 

You mentioned an example when a cab driver was referring to you as "farang" and after you spoke to him in thai, he stopped. Now that is swell. So then it is okay? I think not!

 

There are plenty of neutral pronouns in thai referring to third persons. And I don´t really give a **** if the taxi driver´s sister "went south" or not.

 

my arguments here are based on countless discussions with thai mates of mine on exactly that topic (yes - thais do discuss), in thai, and not on how i imagine thais might be be, because i am too lazy to learn the language, or too arrogant because i might be in the opinion that the whole world has to speak english.

 

There you go again. Whatever language you use when talking to your thai mates is entirely beside the point, but you seem to be pretty preoccupied with that.

Why is it so important to make a big deal out of telling everybody that "this conversation was in thai" or not? And I am not only referring to you as I see this happening a lot on this board.

As long as the mutual understanding is okay, then imo it is of no importance whatever language people communicate in and I can only speculate as to why some feels the need to continously mention the fact that that any given conversation was "was all in thai".

 

 

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

[Zaad]

your post proves my point in why foreigners here should rapidly learn the language to a level they can communicate with.

your example of the conversation with the taxidriver is somewhat typical for the area you went, and for someone whose thai is not sufficient.

i get regular attempts of such conversations as well, especially when taking a taxi in sukhumvit and silom, but i generally cut them short straightaway in thai. when that is over i have generally perfect and nice conversations about all sorts of topics, and the word farang is then used only in an respectful manner.

 

So what are you saying Fly? That 'farang' was used in a disrespectful manner because Itsmedave didn't speak Thai sufficiently to understand its (Thai) definition or because the taxi driver picks on farangs who don't speak the local language for whatever reason?

 

In either way, you say "and the word farang is then used only in an respectful manner. " which means that the taxi driver chose to use the 'disrespectful manner' regardless the fact of knowing jack shit about his customer's language skills. Funny things is that Itsmedave had not said a single word and was still labelled 'farang' all the way. Not to mention his wife being asked personal questions about a person who's right there and MAY have understood the conversation.

 

The latter should not matter anyhow, which is why I think the cab driver deserves the same disrespect he welcomed/greeted him into his cab. We agree that they (Thais/cabdrivers) know AND use both farang words (good and bad) but fuck him for chosing the bad one only because there's an 80% chance of getting yet another dumb farang customer who knows shit about the word 'farang'.