about using the word racism...

[Guest]

::

[pattaya127]

Cool Off, TTM. The thread is going great and let's avoid irate post ping ponging.

 

I am not sure if i understand what you say (not the sig) about thais and the language. I suppose if you were to live in Thailand, you'd find useful to learn more than basic thai. It's an interesting point, though, that many farangs feel to have no reason to learn thai (subject for another thread maybe).

 

 

My vocabulary is not too bad in thai, but i still have mucho problems in understanding thais when they speak conversationally. Just no automatism so far, I still have to think and translate from english, and thai to english, and this one too slowly.

 

I do know that if i was to settle in Thailand, the first thing i would do would be to get and pay the price of a very good and intensive course in thai, UAU seems to be the one of choice from the residents I know. Then, follow up with practice in my daily life.

 

I am all with FlyW on this.

[Zaad]

Lots of good but unfortunately unanswered questions in this thread.

 

Yes, I also agree with Fly that the farang residents In Thailand should learn the local language. That counts for any expat in a foreign country.

 

But FLy, correct me if I'm wrong, you're pointing the guilty finger at Itsmedave for not learning the language (sufficiently). That's nonsense IMO. The cab driver showed disrespect with the usage of the farang word in conversation with his wife.

The fact that Itsmedave speaks little (or no) Thai is irrelevant.

 

Or did the cab driver perhaps mean no offense? ha!

[Guest]

who knows? i was not present at the conversation. we only have itsmedave's interpretition of it, and that is an interpretition of someone who does not speak thai.

 

now, i don't say that all taxidrivers are angels, there are more than a few bastards around (especially around sukhumvit and silom) and i had several shouting matches and near fights with some of them myself.

 

but, if one speaks thai one can:

 

1) understand if there was a real disrespect shown or if it was only a perceived disrespect due to a misunderstanding of the language

 

2) tell the taxidriver to show more respect in a language he understands as you can hardly expect the bloke to speak english (only the real oldtimers from the days when taxidriving was still a job you could make good money with here, and the recently laid off people from jobs with a better education, speak english).

 

 

but as itsmedave (and sorry to bring him up here always, i really don't wanna have a go at him or anything) like so many other foreigners who live here do not speak thai we will never know if it was in fact disrespect on a racial base or just a simple misunderstanding.

 

 

 

>>>Or did the cab driver perhaps mean no offense? ha!<<<

 

well, that is basically the point. we will know for sure only, well... if itsmedave would speak thai, or if his wive would come on the board.

 

 

just to add to the fuel: i have had one experience when i lived for a short while in the farang ghetto which was a clear sign of racist disrespect. as soon as me and the missus entered the cab the bloke went off why she just lets her farang customer not rent the whole cab, etc.

i let him finish and went off my nut (in thai ). you should have seen the lost face, LOL!

 

so, yeah, there obviously is racism here as it is everywhere also in peronal situations, but we can counter that by

 

1) being different than the perceived stereotype

2) being able to discuss that in their own language

3) having friends who will help you out if a situation gets violent (which is very rare here fortunately)

 

 

unfortunately there is very little we can do in case of institutionlised racism. but there we are in a very similar boat as the average thai who is in other ways plagued by the idiocy of his administration. that one is just part of living in a country with very little social justice.

[Guest]

>>>Cool Off, TTM. The thread is going great and let's avoid irate post ping ponging.<<<

 

he might have read a post where i expressed my disgust at the attitude he has shown here, but which i deleted straight away as it would have only ended in flame wars.

 

anyhow, i hope we can keep discussing reasonably.

[Guest]

Probably the best response to some of these posts are

 

WHATEVER?

 

or

 

WHATEVER.

 

To tell if a person is speaking or acting racist, one would have to know the language and customs. If one claims a person speaks racism must does not have a clue what the person just said, then the one making the claim may in fact be racist themself.

[Zaad]

Fly,

 

It was not Itsmedave's interpretation of the conversation, it was the translation. From his post:

(I do speak enough Thai to understand most of what is being said and I will transcribe into English even though the conversation is completely in Thai.)

 

Fact is that we will interprate it differently, no matter how it's used or put. Magical word, isn't it?

 

BTW, I work part-time (but daily though ) at a private school and I love the conversations I have with the Thais (aged 30-50). Many fascinating topics on this board are given a second breath in the classroom and it's very interesting to hear Thai opinions on certain issues we (mostly farangs) discuss here. I've learned a lot from them regarding Thai people/thoughts/life. Not that their opinion will change mine, but the info I get certainly makes me rethink my thoughts more than once.

 

Some of them believe farangs (especially those in BKK and Pattaya) have somewhat the same bad name as Thai women abroad. So it's not surprisingly that cab drivers don't feel the need to make an effort to avoid possible disrespect by not using the F-word.

 

As for your experience, yes, I wish I had seen it.

Being able to speak their lingo doesn't only come in handy to defend oneself but also for revenge-attacks in some cases.

[..]

To lighten this up, but to show how uncouth some taxi drivers are (he wasn't really rude), here is a conversation from my trip from my home (mid-so Thai moo baan on Thonglor) to The Londoner for Quiz Night. Quite surreal. All 100% true.

 

Set the stage: I am walking out of the moo baan when a taxi pulls up. Out pops my 15 year old daughter (dressed of course in skin tight Levi's & a strappy tight top) and she asks if I want the taxi. I say yes, so she leans in and tells him to wait. He opens the drivers door to count change. We are standing next to it. Daughter gives me a big hug & kiss, saying "<English>Daddy, you are going out tonight?...<Thai>I am out of money. Can I have B100 for some som tam from the lady outside?" I give her some money and the taxi driver gives her change too. Driver could not have helped but to hear this conversation IMHO as we were standing right next to him. I hop in. As we go out of the moo baan, the taxi scrapes bottom a bit (they always do).

 

The conversation (all in Thai):

He says: "Ugh, farang very big."

I say: "All taxis do that, that's why I said to go slow"

"OK, no problem. How much do you weigh?"

"108 kilos <gimme a break...I'm 1.91m tall too >. I used to play American football."

Oh! Very good. I like American football. You big strong man. You have a big dick too?"

"Huh?"

"You have a big dick? Some big man take drugs <steriods, I guess he was referring to> and make their dick small. Small dick no good. Ladies do not like."

Oh, no I did not take those drugs. Ya, I have a big dick, hahaha <Not true, but since this is what he wanted to hear, why not?>"

"Hahaha. Ya ladies like big dicks too much!"

"Well, 50/50. Some do not."

"Oh. What about that sexy young girl from before. I can tell she likes your big dick! Very, very sexy hahaha!"

"Who? What girl?"

"The one in my car before you. Your girlfriend."

"Errr, no. That's my daughter!

"Oh...."

 

Not much else was said and I was not angry with him cuz he was obviously very embarassed. Note that he never said sorry, tho'. Read into that what you will. But he also did not overuse the "F" word, only used it once. Anyway, what a weird conversation. I cannot imagine having that conversation anywhere else in the world. Only in Thailand

 

But the real question I have is whether he would have had a similar conversation with a Thai guy? My guess is yes, but what do I know?

 

Cheers,

SD

[pattaya127]

Anyway, what a weird conversation.

-------------------------------

Why? I mean, if i read about your nightlife escapades (apologies if my memory fails me, but i think you indulge in P4P, no?), I'd think he assumed rightly you were an "active" farang.

Mistake with the daughter (big dick too?), but as you say, why blame him, he put 1+1 as is probably his experience with many farangs seen with a younger woman?

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"Note that he never said sorry, tho'."

I think it is *very* rare to hear a Thai say sorry, but I guess that would be another thread.

 

Sanuk!