Torneyboy Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Hi BB We go to our local pub when a big game is on....to get ""atmosphere"..fun see the other team supporters...a good nights fun...if we win....but still...no punch ups or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 chuckwoww said:As Carew points out, it's a very complicated mix of factors like camaraderie, insularity, xenophobia, misplaced patriotism, booze, sexual frustration, the Saturday night punch-up mentality and probably a lot of other things I can't think of at the moment. However you would like to put it or try to understand it, it is an absolutely horrid subculture. I have seen them in TV specials about hooliganism and we see them on the streets of BKK and Pattaya. Even when there isn't football, they are there in groups of a half dozen or more, drunk, loud and proud of their disgusting selves. There are plenty of supporters for this subculture on our board and SriLekHunt, although he has always sounded like a good guy, seemed to be one of them. I recently saw a TV report about a British magazine whose readers, I assume, are in the subculture. The article recommended that supporters of Euro 2004 clear their minds (??) of distractions. Very important - if your gf is in the way or might need some time during the games, get rid of her. And do it well in advance, so all the distractions involved will be in the past. They specifically mentioned "her mates" coming around and hassling you. These people like to be low, low, low and do so in public. As far as Americans are concerned, it is totally beyond our comprehension, since it is rooted in two subcultures we don't understand, football supporters first, and hooligans, second. Having said that, I am absolutely in favor of tough guys. Some of these guys are real tough guys. It's just that we could use their combativeness in a different and really truly critical arena. Zane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 "There are plenty of supporters for this subculture on our board and SriLekHunt, although he has always sounded like a good guy, seemed to be one of them." ............................................................. As a person who recently was thrown in jail and falsly charged of one of the most disgusting crimes in the books, I would say do not judge SLH. You are not guilty before the verdict, and surely it can't have come so fast after the charge. It can be just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carew66 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 It's very difficult for me to understand, mainly because I was not born with the football gene. And because I have to ask the question then I will never understand the answer. It's important to iterate (yet again) that there are hundreds of thousands of supporters in the UK that are exactly that. Supporters. They love the game and they'll bust a gut to see a game - many of my friends and colleagues are football supporters, many on the board are. But football hooligans are also football supporters and are greatly offended if anybody - step forward Tony Blair - describes them as anything other than that. However, hooligans will rarely involve or intimidate 'normal' supporters. Call it a 'code' if you like. It's just not done. Often... In England it has become extremely rare for anything untoward to happen inside grounds. Close circuit TV; police 'spotters' and intelligence shared between police forces via NCIS; all-seater stadia in the wake of the Taylor report, have all contributed to a safer environment at the game. Outside though is a different matter. A lot of confrontations are planned using the internet and troops are marshalled via mobile phones; public order is harder to monitor and maintain. The police categorise individual hooligans from A - C (confusingly in my opinion Cat C is the greater risk whereas I would have thought it should be Cat A to match other systems) and these individuals are active risks. Once spotted at or near a match then they are placed under surveillance although it is often a very overt form of observation, the theory being that if they know that they are being watched then they won't do anything. The accent here is on prevention. It's an interesting reaction when a yob has travelled hundreds of miles from his home town to be tapped on the shoulder whilst having a pint by a cop from his home city. "Hello mate, behave yourself this afternoon" It's all too late for the police if they are standing behind shields rather than talking to these gentlemen. A riot shield I'm afraid invites someone to throw something at it - this is a lesson that the French CRS and the Dutch and German forces find hard to compute. They allow things to fester at a low level - a bit of chanting here, a few broken glasses there - and the yobs behaviour escalates when they see that they aren't being bothered by the cops.. Then suddenly the police react, and forcibly. Hence a lot of returning supporters complain about police brutality in Europe. We are an island race. We have always felt an 'otherness' from the rest of Europe, it's an historical thing; pride and bullshit all wrapped up in a flag. The Daily Mirror ran a front page prior to an England v Germany match ("Achtung") the tone of which was xenophobic bordering on something even uglier. Believe it or not - World War 2 ended 60 years ago but it still creeps into the national (un)conscience. It's unbelievable and retarded. I saw a load of yobby types in Amsterdam, not one of them over the age of 40, standing outside the Grasshopper in the RLD chanting "If it wasn't for the English you'd be Krauts" to the tune of 'She'll be coming round the mountain'. Really boys? So, often for these lads it's some perverted notion of national pride; they are 'invading' the continent all over again but this time no-one is shooting at them. They are 'Eng-er-land'. Eng-er-land. It's a funny old place. Many people feel that they have to be ashamed of, and atone for, an imperial past. Being proud of England has been frowned upon in some quarters. Many complain of other cultures taking precedence over our own. Patriotism is suppressed and an expression of it is often wilfully misinterpreted as racism by the political classes who have their own agendas. International football allows people to give vent to these feelings. On the whole this is healthy and good but there is a lot of difference between progressive nationalism and its dark reactionary twin. Whenever young men gather as a group with a shared passion just add alcohol and something will happen sooner or later (been to Pattaya lately?) Importantly, there is a culture of drinking here that isn't seen anywhere else. Christ, we pride ourselves on it. Drink beer from a half-pint glass? Bloody hell, you'll have us wearing women's knickers and taking it up the arse from tattooed truckers next! There will be no cessation of hooliganism. The only thing that can be done is to try to minimise it - it won't go away and it is not a recent phenomenon; young lads in the northern milltowns in the 19th century would have pitched battles with lads from other towns at annual fairs, often with customised and decorated clogs. In fact it was in that century that the word 'hooligan' was coined. It is thought to have its roots in a violent Irish family called the Hoolahans who lived in...London!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Carew, Thanks for writing this, you are so right ! However, the 'code' as you call it is really non-ecisting once the hooligans get to the continent, they'll harass anybody. They are scum really and give all a bad name. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_town_hall Posted June 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Quite right, looks like a lot of people were rounded up in error. STH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 The love hooligans have for this game is completely different than the love I have for it. For them it's an obsession and they can't (don't want) to control....and I even dare to say that it (this sport) controls their live. When their club/nation lose they're sad/violent/insane. When they win...they're still violent and insane but maybe to a 'nicer' extent. One thing I'm sure about is that hooligans are not to be mistaken with fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokbutcher Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Words so wisely written Carew, I couldnt have put it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 can someone tell us more about SLH? Some of you englisg guys have met him. Was he a perfect example of hooligan, routinely, or could he have been in the wrong crowd and on the piss that night? Is he losing his job over it, spending 6 months in the clapper? Sorry for giving attention to an ex-member? Maybe it's out of place. i hate hooliganism, but not knowing who this guy was, i am just curious and sorry for his ordeal or stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 I think that was a stupid request P127 - this board is not about others relieving stuff about ourself against our wish. Its up to SLH to tell the story, if he wants. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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