JJsushi Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Dude you only obfuscate the issue with your parrallels of Stick's site to say the New York Times or other mainstream periodical. Some publications have policies to maintain their integrity and others do not. I'll give you an example, Consumer Reports is a well known magazine i the States that tests consumer products and rates them. They accept to advertising dollars in order to maintain their integrity. Back to the point. We are talking about hypocrisy. Which is to profess one thing and do another. Stick professes he is against the ills of the scene and how it affects Thailand yet on the other hand he publishes a website that caters to a P4P readership and he reaps monetary benefits from said readers or P4P oriented sponsors. That is hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 cardinalblue said:LP, It was absolutely not directed at you. It was a follow-up to an important statement that HT made that seemed to get overlook by his critics. People read what they only what they want to read (argue for or against) and he made an interesting observation that people didn't want to address.... best regards, Cardinalblue Tell us what this important statement or observation was and it's relevance to the thread regarding hypocrisy and maybe I will take a crack at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 cardinalblue said:LP, If that is a question, then the answer is they get 2000% more than working a factory job, putting morality aside of course... Cardinalblue CB, I think you are an expert in stereotypes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Maybe Stickman has changed. Maybe Stickman sees the P4P or nightlife for what it really is to him. Maybe Stickman wants to disassociate himself a little bit from the scene so as to isolate his wife from the scene. Maybe Stickman sees something we do not see. As for ex-whoremongers being hypocrits - I would compare this to people who were ex alcholics (drunks) and now go to AA meetings. To attend an AA meeting means one realizes they have a problem. Once attending the meetings; most stop drinking. Some tell others to stop drinking. Were the crossing point comes in is when one tells others to stop drinking because it is wrong, and they have really crossed the line when they consider those who drink to be 'bad' or 'evil. I have met many people who once loved the scene, but for one reason or another, are no longer are part of the scene. None seem to push one way or another that the scene is right or wrong - they just let it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 A hypocrit is someone who doesn't pactice what they preach. Stickman no longer partakes in the P4P scene so therefore he is not a hyprocrit by definiton. However he is to a certain extent caught in a moral dilemma as he comments on the negative effects of the P4P scene both on punter and girl yet at the same time he seems to be profiting from providing a column with a very heavy P4P content. I am not sure how that sits but i suppose that when he started the column he was involved in the P4P scene and even thou he is now no longer involved he does have a big following who are interested in the Naughty Nightlife so he continues to feed them. Old Hippie commented that we are all hypocrits to a certain extent and this i would wholeheartedly agree with. If you dig deep enough we have all made or make compromises that on close scrutiny would put us in the camp of hypocrit. Anyhow the way things are going there will be no Naughty Nightlife for Stickman to comment on soon if Bangkok continues to go the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthai Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 A couple of years ago when Stick started professing the ills of the P4P scene he started taking a lot of flak from some of the members of this board. He was being called a hypocrite. .. I felt some of the criticism he was receiving was being too moralistic in its tone. I enjoyed his website and Stick had previously been helpful in responding to some of my questions I had about Thailand. So I wrote him an email. This was probably in 2001 or 2002. The essence of my email to Stick was that his position was hypocritical but ....there are degrees of hypocrisy. Then I made some analogy about Thomas Jefferson and slavery and told him not to worry too much about the naysayers, fuck the criticism and keep doing the column. Stick never did reply. When I visit Thailand I don't hire the girls but I do enjoy going to the gogos even though I'm well aware of the overall negative effects this has on the BGs and Thailand in general. My relatively small participation in the P4P scene does make me a HYPOCRITE I'm sure there are many of us that don't like how JJ has presented his case but regardless HE"S RIGHT. Stick is a Hypocrite ....and so am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrX Posted August 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hey Mods..they shoot horses dont they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 only the sick ones BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hi p, For someone to be a hypocrit, one must be currently partaking in what he is presently criticizing. ------------------------- >>>>crap. It would be like saying a drug dealer is not an hypocrite when he says the drug scene is bad and should be done with, just because he does not shoot, sniff or smoke.<<< I gotta really disagree with this. Someone who gets drawn into doing drugs through a g/f, or whatever, and soon after, decides it's not for him, is forever more, a hypocrite for expressing the opinion he doesn't think a good thing? For the rest of his life, he is forever a hypocrite for saying that he participated, and because found disagreeable, is then hypocritical? That's crazy. Because a guy tried out the prostitution scene for a couple of weeks, he can never speak badly about it? That is simply called having an opinion, not hypocrisy. Your example above relates to a guy who is selling drugs, says is bad, but who is yet still actively selling. The problem is, your response is to someone telling you "one must be currently partaking in what he is presently criticizing". I think all would agree with *your* example, as a case of hypocrisy. But that is not addressing (the complete opposite of) what poster is saying. You can use many subjects to make his point. Which is, just because someone at one time in his life, participated in an activity, does not mean they can never speak negatively about the experience, without being a hypocrite. A religious person who has become disillusioned, and states such, is then a hypocrite for having former beliefs, years ago? No. He simply changed his beliefs, which is ok to do. That's not hypocrisy.....that's simply the changing of one's thought process, due to re-evaluations, personal experiences, etc. IMO, hypocritical means spouting one thing, and doing another. Never to be confused with a change of opinions, for whatever reason. However ex-smoker's might bug you, they are not hypocritical for denouncing as a bad habit, and calling you an idiot to smoke. They're only hypocrites, if having a Camel Light hanging off their lips, while doing so. They had a bad habit, got rid of it, and now see it as something that was bad for them. There is nothing hypocritical in that, IMO. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hi Uthai, >>>>>When I visit Thailand I don't hire the girls but I do enjoy going to the gogos even though I'm well aware of the overall negative effects this has on the BGs and Thailand in general. My relatively small participation in the P4P scene does make me a HYPOCRITE<<< A hypocrite how? Having a beer in a bar, contributing to prostitution? That's really a stretch.....And I'm just not seeing it. If all were like you, it would be impossible for it to exist, and in fact wouldn't, so how do you see yourself as a participant, and as such, a hypocrite? You've lost me here. As in your case, if no one bar-fined a go-go girl, then they would instantly cease to exist. Guilt by association? You need to think that out a little bit. Even if you pull 10 girls every night, it only makes you a hypocrite, if you're screaming it's horrible to do, at the same time while you're doing. What are you hypocritical of, if not pulling prostitutes? Supporting a business which advocates prostitution? Well...your couple of hundred baht, for a few beers, is not why they exist, so would not feel too guilty as a hypocrite. Your couple of baht is not part of the machine, so don't beat yourself up over that. Of course, your being there in the first place, is a curiousity. Telling your wife/g-f that you are elsewhere, while your >>>My relatively small participation in the P4P scene does make me a HYPOCRITE<<< could be debated.... , and could be seen as very hypocritical. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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