THe hammer has fallen on nightlife

[Old Hippie]

All up in the air for now, "no tink to mut..."

[Guest]

There isn't disagreement that nightlife and p4p will not be eliminated - just more "confined" and limited to specific areas. I believe that the general perception was that the whole scene was getting out of control by the local Thais and that something had to be done.

I understand that the goal is to confine the p4p nightlife to specific areas, and I actually agree with the concept of zoning. My disagreement is with the manner in which it is being implimented. Two quick examples:

 

1. If there is already a proliferation of bars in an area, that area should be included in an entertainment zone. The area I have in mind is lower Sukhumvit. That has become the de facto center of the Farang oriented nightlife, and it now includes more than just p4p venues (more about that in point no. 2). Since this has been a defacto entertainment zone for years, having the zoning conform to the reality doesn't really change anything or allow the scene to get further out of control. I could see a rule pushing it off Sukhumvit proper so that it is out of view. But having the lower Sukhumvit area outside of a zone will simply fuel corruption.

 

2. The irony is that the zoning rules, as written, will most harm upscale non p4p bars. In other words, the bars I would expect the authorities to favor if they want to get more upscale tourists are the ones that will be the most affected. Bars like Robinhood, the Dubliner, Q Bar, Hard Rock, etc., do not pander almost exclusively to p4p the way bars and clubs Patpong and Ratchadpisek do (both in zones). But if Q Bar, Hard Rock, the irish bars and similiar venues are only allowed to remain open from 9 pm to 12 midnight, they simply won't survive. It is all rather strange.

[short-time]

I doubt they are very concerned about the bars you mentioned. Seems clear to me their goal in the lower Sukhumvit area is to force the gogos and other P4P establishments out of business. I?m sure they realize that other businesses will be adversely affected in this cleanup process (the hotels for example), but they probably figure it can?t be helped. Anyway, who says the authorities can?t resort to selective enforcement. After all, TIT and they can do pretty much whatever they want.

 

If and when the powers that be are successful in closing down the businesses they deem undesirable, I wouldn?t be surprised to see operating hours return to something more reasonable. In no way does that mean they would allow things to return to the way they once were.

 

ST

[poorjudge]

This is where the board would benefit from more Thai participation. Most of the posts are understandably concerned with the effect on the foreign-oriented P4P scene, but the vast majority of establishments affected would be Thai, and the vast majority of those in no way involved with P4P.

 

I'm not going to pretend to have this all figured out; I doubt even the people making the rules have thought everything through, but I suspect the foreign P4P scene isn't the largest consideration.

 

Mighty Mouse:

 

Legit businesses paying their taxes? That's good for a laugh. Many businesses don't even keep one real set of books, let alone two. Tea money, on the other hand...

 

I remain,

A Poor Judge of Character

[Guest]

Legit businesses paying their taxes? That's good for a laugh. Many businesses don't even keep one real set of books, let alone two. Tea money, on the other hand...

You are right about that. I was posted here over 10 years ago to a US-Thai JV, and one of the first things we (the US side) did was insist that the company start keeping a proper set of books. Tax avoidance was OK, but not tax evasion. The local Thai partner - now a big figure in TRT - looked at us as if we were from Mars.

 

The new social order, eradicating corruption, etc. is all for show and face. There may be a few true believers, but most are about ten times as corrupt as your worst politician in the US or Western Europe - something that people who don't live here probably don't fathom.

I'm not going to pretend to have this all figured out; I doubt even the people making the rules have thought everything through, but I suspect the foreign P4P scene isn't the largest consideration

Spot on. At most, the foreign p4p scene is simply collateral damage or a convenient target to get votes from xenophobes and social conservatives if things get rough as we approach the February elections.

[Guest]

Seems clear to me their goal in the lower Sukhumvit area is to force the gogos and other P4P establishments out of business.

I think poor judge said it best. I really don't think they have thought this through.

 

The one thing every is worried about, however, is the affect on tourism. Even the government is worried about that, particularly those in the TAT responsible for raising tourism figures, but the industry leaders are even more worried. Have you heard even one of them endorse the new social order?

 

The private industry leaders in tourism - the ones in a better position to judge than the government - are firmly against earlier closing times, etc. The head of Phuket's tourism association was predicting a massive decrease in tourism if closing times are moved to 12 midnight. Now if most people are here for temples and beaches, why would the tourism industry's head in Phuket be so concerned?

 

You will obviously learn more about the tourism industry here by listening to those who are in the industry and depend upon it for their living than official Thai government spokesmen.

[Guest]

poorjudge says

"Legit businesses paying their taxes? That's good for a laugh. Many businesses don't even keep one real set of books, let alone two. Tea money, on the other hand..."

 

Unfortunately, most falangs feel everybody is corrupt in Thailand. Are your big stores like Tesco and Carefour corrupt? I do not think so! Those that are honest, do not feel they should bare the full blunt of the taxes. They feel everybody should pay there fair share.

 

Thailand corruption seems to be something most falangs expect and sad to say, most falangs due support bussinesses that are corrupt. Doubt me, do you think the bar that collects a bar fine reports that income?

 

If falangs support corruption, can they complain about corruption?

[christo23]

I wouldn´t be suprised if Tesco or Carrefour would at least be involved in some form of corruption.

[jxxxl]

My guess is that foreign companies, especially big ones, are the best tax payers in Thailand. Why, because the stakes are very high if they get caught and they don't have the benefit, to the same extent of the big Thai companies, of Thai protection. MM, you think companies like Thai Cement play by the rules? Hell no. Companies like that are probably the biggest abusers.

[MrX]

"The head of Phuket's tourism association was predicting a massive decrease in tourism if closing times are moved to 12 midnight."

 

 

Have a falang friend who swims with the big fish on Koh Samui (actually it is rather a small island!) and she says they regard social order there as poison. Beyong the obvious loss of income, (remembering Samui is not a big P4P destination but actually has families who like to go out and drink a beer or at least the parents do) the aimless drunk falang loosed early on the nocturnal street cause trouble, altercate, fracas etc