Elation Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Its a stark reality that the crackdown will not only continue but intensify during the next few months, irregardless of how much ranting, raving, and "threatening to take my business" elsewhere goes on here. The government seems determined to take a strong hand in squashing the P4P image that has tarnished the image of Thailand. Skeptics were saying this effort was short lived when it started a couple of years ago and that Thailand would never survive without the P4P scene. Many cited the image transformation would never work and that the effort would be abandoned because of economics. Well not only has Thailand survived, but it has done better than many western nations where the critics have come from. The fact of the matter is that the Bird Flu and SARS are more worrisome to the Thai government than any loss of revenue from Sex-tourists. Chicken export is a far more honorable profession than prostitution in both the eyes of the world and the Thais themselves. The other fact is that there are many more visitors from around Asia (China, HK, Korea, Singapore, etc) than the west. Those visitors not only outnumber and outspend their western counterparts, but they don't post their sexual conquests on the internet or do BBC investigative reports on Go Go Bars and P4P venues. The last bit of thought is that the most significant innovation that led to the demise of nightlife in Thailand was the internet itself. Too many people writing about cheap sex, drugs, booze, and a good time have brought out all the others looking for the same thing. Unfortunately, it also brought out all the ugly things that come along with it such as adverse publicity, exposure, and loss of face for the Thai people. If one lives in Asia long enough, one will know that the concept of "Face" is so important that some will make great sacrifices to keep it. Nightlife may be that sacrificial lamb that is going to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short-time Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Interesting point you make about the internet being the culprit in the downfall of the P4P scene in LOS. It?s not over just yet, but what you suggest makes a lot of sense and could very well turn out to be true in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Hi, "but they don't post their sexual conquests on the internet" Actually, they do. Or at least they used to on Sammyboy's forum (did a quick search but can't find it : Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Hi! I also suspect that you could find a large number of similar websites if you coud read Chinese or Japanese. regards ALHOLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 "Skeptics were saying this effort was short lived when it started a couple of years ago and that Thailand would never survive without the P4P scene." The P4P scend is still here and going strong. Other than a crackdown on showing, not much has been done as yet. "Many cited the image transformation would never work and that the effort would be abandoned because of economics. Well not only has Thailand survived, but it has done better than many western nations where the critics have come from." No image transformation yet and no sign the government can actuall transform it, YET. And, what measure are you using when you say Thailand has done better than the western nations where their critics come from? Over what time frame? If you think the government has this social order campaign under control, you are nuts. They haven't even started the real crackdown and it goes WAY beyond P4P. One potential outcome is a lot of pissed off voters and the TRT getting the boot in the next election, and a lot of bad press for Thailand. "Those visitors not only outnumber and outspend their western counterparts..." Do you have anything to back that up? I can believe the Japanese, but not sure about other Asian nations. Singapore? Better check that one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elation Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 jxxxl said:"Skeptics were saying this effort was short lived when it started a couple of years ago and that Thailand would never survive without the P4P scene." The P4P scend is still here and going strong. Other than a crackdown on showing, not much has been done as yet. >>>I think you missing the early bar closures, drug testing, passport checking, visa restrictions.... >>>The issue was not if the P4P scene would survive, but if the crackdown would continue. It did. I agree P4P still exists, but it exists everywhere, even in your home town. The difference is that you don't make it a "high light" of your home town tour (low light maybe )". "Many cited the image transformation would never work and that the effort would be abandoned because of economics. Well not only has Thailand survived, but it has done better than many western nations where the critics have come from." No image transformation yet and no sign the government can actuall transform it, YET. And, what measure are you using when you say Thailand has done better than the western nations where their critics come from? Over what time frame? >>>One has to have blinders on to not see how the attitudes have changed already. Many on this board have started to complain and many say they are going elsewhere. The process is going to take a while, but if they don't start, how are they going to get there? >>>Last stats I heard was a positive 5-6% GDP growth and a positive trade surplus. Better than most, including the USofA. If you think the government has this social order campaign under control, you are nuts. They haven't even started the real crackdown and it goes WAY beyond P4P. One potential outcome is a lot of pissed off voters and the TRT getting the boot in the next election, and a lot of bad press for Thailand. >>>My point exactly. They haven't even started to get tough yet. But if you call no showing, earlier closing hours, drug tests, and street sweeps out of control, then you must not be seeing the same thing as others. As the bar owners, girls, and drug sellers if they are concerned. >>>One forgets, even though this is a democratic country, a few politicians control the power, so I seriously doubt that Taskin will get the boot. On the other hand, its exactly that the Thais are pissed off over the whole sex image that the crackdown has not stopped. When normal, non P4P girls get hit on all over the country by ill mannered sex tourists, I don't see how that can be any more popular. "Those visitors not only outnumber and outspend their western counterparts..." Do you have anything to back that up? I can believe the Japanese, but not sure about other Asian nations. Singapore? Better check that one again. >>>From an earlier posts by Crazy Man and Khun Sanuk, How about these figures: All Asian Nations: 1.909 M All EU 1.546 M These don't include USA nor Malaysia (The largest I believe) nor Australia. Besides, China is a huge potential market, with 1/4 of the world's population and the fastest growing economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUZIBANDIT Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 The current tourist numbers for 2003 were included in a special tourism supplement to the BKK Post today. I threw mine out, but I'm sure anyone interested could find a copy and get the latest figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Elation, I think you are making some gross generalizations and exaggerations. Let me explain... ">>>I think you missing the early bar closures, drug testing, passport checking, visa restrictions.... >>>The issue was not if the P4P scene would survive, but if the crackdown would continue. It did. I agree P4P still exists, but it exists everywhere, even in your home town. The difference is that you don't make it a "high light" of your home town tour (low light maybe )". Bar closures, drug testing and passport checking are just noise at this point. Go out and see of the nightlife scene is much slower today that it was at the same time last year. I haven't noticed a big change in volume of customers. It's not as fun as a five years ago, but people are still coming. The early closures and zoning, if enforced, will be the death nell for a huge portion of the entertainment industry acorss Thailand, of which the farang P4P scene is but a small piece. ">>>One has to have blinders on to not see how the attitudes have changed already. Many on this board have started to complain and many say they are going elsewhere. The process is going to take a while, but if they don't start, how are they going to get there?" What attitudes are you speaking of? People posting on this board? There's a lot of complaining, which is valid, but do you know whether than has translated into anything. You've got to come up wiht somethingmore measureable than your gut feeling if you are making statements about dramatic reductions. ">>>Last stats I heard was a positive 5-6% GDP growth and a positive trade surplus. Better than most, including the USofA." Elation, better go back and study your econ if you think these figures say Thailand is "doing better than most western economies" ">>>My point exactly. They haven't even started to get tough yet. But if you call no showing, earlier closing hours, drug tests, and street sweeps out of control, then you must not be seeing the same thing as others. As the bar owners, girls, and drug sellers if they are concerned. You aren't looking at the big picture in the context of what might hurt Thailand. Losing the farang P4P scene probably isn't a big deal to Thailand, but losing their entire entertainment industry is and non-P4P tourists is. >>>One forgets, even though this is a democratic country, a few politicians control the power, so I seriously doubt that Taskin will get the boot...." Don't count on it. The Thais have a right to vote and Taksin needs to make sure he keeps rice bowls full if you wants to be reelected. ">>>From an earlier posts by Crazy Man and Khun Sanuk, How about these figures: All Asian Nations: 1.909 M All EU 1.546 M These don't include USA nor Malaysia (The largest I believe) nor Australia." You mentioned "outspending" western countries. Not sure those figures support your argument. I also don't think Malaysia is sending the most tourists in Asia. Have you ever talked to Singaporeans about the kind of trips they take to Thailand? Package bargin tours, they come to eat and buy trinkets. Most of the guys I travel with spend about 10-15K/day on hotel, golf, food, drinking and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Petchburi Pete Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 New Petchburi Road !!! Glad I never changed my board name when I/we moved to E. Pattaya! Remember, NP Rd. was THE place ... before Sukhumvit existed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinkz Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 "So combining those numbers paints a fuller picture of who spends the most:" _________________________________________________ What's missing from this formula (number of visitors multiplied by average expenditure per day) is length of stay. First, you need to seperate business (ST) from holiday (LT)travellers (remember the box checked on immigration form? This also skews the figures for Nepal, UAE, India, etc.) For holidaymakers, Europeans, because of longer vacation time (and perhaps higher rate of unemployment) top this list, followed by North Americans. Thus, the further one travels to LOS, the less 'time-compressed' one is, resulting in less expenditure per day in comparison to the burgeoning regional market blowing into town for a long weekend. Similarily, the comparison of 'quality' tourists, generally also with short stays and often in multi-national hotel chains, could have less effect than a scruffy backpacker staying through two-three cycles of a full moon party and in guesthouses with a greater trickle down of monies spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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