Trouble with older thai women- need advice

[JJsushi]

I am in a bit of a quandrary. I have good relationships in Thailand with about 8 women above the ages of 50 who I refer to as my "Thai aunts". They are all unmarried, university educated, financially well off, several have Khunying status and when I visit they take great pleasure in organizing my social calendar for me. They are responsible for ALL of the advances I have made in "well heeled" Thai society, having introduced me to all types of prominent Thais from monks, to governors businessmen and senior law enforcement people. they even attempt to have me meet what they view as "proper" thai girls for marriage.

 

Now all of these aunts know each other and are withing the same social and status group. As with any group there are "cliques" and power struggles so to speak. You would be amazed how status and face become an issue when these ladies plan a trip to Europe with each other.

 

2 of the auntts are based in the States currently and I speak with them quite frequently. The other 6 are in Thailand. I make attempts to periodically call them all and when I am thailand make at least 1 attempt to see each one of them(you never want to show you favor one over the other).

 

The problem for me is that 2 of these aunts have had a major falling out over several issues that IMO only women can have. The falling out has occured along the cliquish lines in their group. The two aunts that are bickering happen to be my 2 favorites one in the Stateswho introduced me to all of the others and the other in LOS whose best friend is the other Thai aunt living in the States.

 

How do I know about these happenings? 3 of my Thai aunts have informed me during our chats.

 

The predicament for me is to how to engage the other women when I know from experience how important face is with all of these women. I will be in LOS in another week and a few more times before the end of the year which means that I cannot see any of the Thai based women without it being deemed rude.

 

I don't want it to appear I am taking sides or favorites even though i am privy to the circumstances and i don't want any resentment coming from anyone.

 

I used to get chastized when i did not see certain aunts during my visits , now I don't want to get a cold shoulder because I do see certain aunts during my visits.

 

How does one deal with older women and their differences much less older Thai women?

 

Should I go along and keep visiting and talking with everyone as if i am ignorant to the situation but never mention that I visited any of them ?

 

Should I ally myself with the most powerful clique and distance myself from the weaker?

 

What complicates the issue for me is that 3 of them have already spoken to me about the fractures in the group and they have expressed their strong opinions and feelings about who is right and who is wrong as well as how they are going to deal and interact with others in their original group. naturally I sympathize when they talk to me but i never make judgement or give my personal opinion on the person they are referring to.

 

Keep in mind I am a farang that is not schooled in the nuances of Thai face and culture but rather one that has always used common sense and has been tutored by one of my aunts during social engagements.

 

Also my motivations are truly selfish as I genuinely enjoy spending time with all of them and they all really do take care of me; some more so than others and I am sure that is a result of my being the darling of the 2 "leaders" of the group.

 

I am sure many of you will view this as a silly matter but for me it is not because I have been involved long enough with these women to know that this face stuff is kind of serious especially in their circle.

 

Any advice would be appreciated

[Guest]

Khun JJ............ as you must be well aware in learning the social tap dance of Thai society, it is most like navigating a minefield in the dark. Fortunately you have enough information from those who are speaking to you to see most of the mines illuminated through your night vision goggles.

 

If this information shuts down you will no doubt trip one ....... so in proper fashion your thought "Should I go along and keep visiting and talking with everyone as if i am ignorant to the situation but never mention that I visited any of them ?" is correct IMO.

 

Never broach the subject, and silence will allow them *all* to confide in you and speak of you as a 'wise man'.

 

But then I think you know that already.

[Old Hippie]

JJ,

 

Good luck dude...I would agree, pretend ignorant of all that is going on...

[pattaya127]

I think if these women have any class and the maturity of their age, they will not impose on you to get involved in their private disputes, and also, not ask you to take sides or expect you to. This, however, may not happen, and maybe a little distance from you for a while may be the safest thing to do. If you can pay your respects but pretext a busy schedule to spend much social time with them.

 

 

I will take working/farming class simplicity over all this bourgeois "walking on eggs" etiquette, anytime, and as a matter of fact, I do! Sorry for diverging....

[Guest]

55555555555555 rotflmao

 

That is exactly what they want him to do ......... take sides. Maturity and class ..... hahahahahaha

[pattaya127]

yep, LHL, I resolved the BKK maturity and class problem very early:

 

ISSAN RULES.... as deep in the countryside as one can!!!!

[check_bin_krap]

First, do the opposite of my advices. That seems to work for most. I agree with OH, pretend like you are a fool. Don't take sides at all.

 

Plenty of role models to study to learn your act, found in Nanaplaza.

 

Cheers!

[Zaad]

JJ,

It's kind of hard to give advice on this one.

 

For me personally it would highly depend on the issue these aunts or nagging about.

Do you have any idea about their dispute? Not asking for details, merely curious to know if you give a shit about their issue. If you do then I obviously recommend you to speak up.

 

If you couldn't care less (my guess) or simply have no clue then I would pretend to have a bleeding nose (as we say in Holland) being in your shoes. Since you care for all of them it seems to be the right thing to do not to get involved.

[JJsushi]

Zaad said:

JJ,

It's kind of hard to give advice on this one.

 

For me personally it would highly depend on the issue these aunts or nagging about.

Do you have any idea about their dispute? Not asking for details, merely curious to know if you give a shit about their issue. If you do then I obviously recommend you to speak up.

 

The dispute itself is really based on how one woman perceives the other woman as "respecting" her and vice versa. One feels that the other is too controlling and vice versa. It is not really one thing but it is a series of actions over time(more like a couple of years) that they all point too that shows a pattern.

 

Dude I am talking about IMO silly things such as what restaurants are selected to eat in to how they spend their hoildays schedules in Europe and America. There have been no ill words or even a verbal exchange that we would call a blowout argument between the 2. They are still very "polite" to each other in public but the frostiness, criticism and gossip talked amongst the cliques in their social group have definitely caused division.

 

The main two women have definitely expressed to me that they don't care for the other by the way the criticize one another when speaking about recent and past encounters. I thought it was amusing how one was in wonderment that the other had never visited her in one of her homes. One also was hurt that the other did not show the proper appreciation for a favor performed. Amazing how certain matters of protocol are important to women of this stature.

 

The taking sides on my part is not based on who I think is right or wrong but rather which group I think is more influential and can help me best while I continue to visit Thailand. Like I mentioned before my motives are very selfish.

I don't fool myself into believing that they all love JJsushi. I am sure to many I am a pleasant form of entertainment and their interests lie in me solely because the main 2 leaders of their group actually do like me and look out for me.

 

No one is "asking" me to choose sides nor are they purposely placing me in an uncomfortable situation but I know how catty and touchy women can be-perception is a bitch sometimes. I want to make sure that I show no favortism outwardly with any of them yet I want to create the perception to each one that each is a favorite to me. I know that sounds kind of weird but it is something I feel has to be done. Trust me when I say that these women have helped me ALOT and they really look after me, so it is very well worth the pain in the ass situation to find the best resolution to insure that I have a good relationship with all of them or pre-emptively cut out what I think to be the weaker clique to solidify my standing with the others and insure that I will at least be a favorite in someones clique.

As I mentioned I am thinking selfishly here and have no altruistic motives. I have experienced the benefits of being connected In Thailand and I don't want to give that up.

 

These women definitely talk and there is no way that I can visit any of them without the others knowing. Heck I have recieved calls from an aunt in the States that knew of dinner plans with another aunt in BKK days before the event and they call after the dinner to debrief me about it. Or I could be spending the day shopping with another aunt in Chiang Mai and they will pull out their mobile and say "Let's call Pi So and So, to tell her we are shopping" as if Pi So and So already did not know and this would only make it the 5th time they called them that day. The comedy of it is that they will have me on the mobile telling Pi So and So what we are buying, of course forcing me to do it in my basic infantile Thai as they are coaching me on the proper words to use.

 

Interestingly the aunts are defintely cliqued along home origin lines with one group being from the Chiang Mai area and the other from the BKK area.

[JJsushi]

pattaya127 said:

I think if these women have any class and the maturity of their age, they will not impose on you to get involved in their private disputes, and also, not ask you to take sides or expect you to. This, however, may not happen, and maybe a little distance from you for a while may be the safest thing to do. If you can pay your respects but pretext a busy schedule to spend much social time with them.

 

 

I will take working/farming class simplicity over all this bourgeois "walking on eggs" etiquette, anytime, and as a matter of fact, I do! Sorry for diverging....

 

No one is imposing on me to choose sides. I am thinking of this on my own as a sort of self preservation mode, so that I do not get closed out from their group entirely. You see P127 I have bitten the proverbial "Apple" and thus I am very selfish in my motives.

 

To follow on your diverging thoughts. I too enjoy the working/farming class. I consider myself fortunate to be able to socialize with all the classes of Thais freely because my being a "farang" gives me that opportunity. There are definite benefits to hanging out with the "higher" social classes of Thais as well as the working classes and even the P4P types. As long as you don't fall into the trap of "buying" into the class crap as too many farang seem to do and keep the proper pespective, it can be a very beneficial to be a social chameleon.

 

There are most definitely etiquettes on every social level in LOS, even your beloved farming class, maybe not as much "walking on eggs" but it definitely is there.