Disturbing Phnom Pehn "Slave" Brothel Report-

[Guest]

bibblis, stop patronising me.

i do know the difference between a "spin story" and reality.

 

 

as for the rest of your posts, go and read it again please. does the fact that the "kiddies" in km 11 were "only" a minority make it perfectly alright to visit?

 

 

 

 

 

>>>It's fucking Nanaplaza, boys! New Girl asking about where to find ladyboys who'll go with her and her boyfriend? That's what we're all about!<<<

 

yeah, that is large part of what this place is about - not downplaying indentured and child prostitution.

at least i thought so before i read your post. now i have certain doubts...

[Guest]

>>>To suggest that I was only down on your or the anti brigade is not factual. <<<

 

 

you mean such as the instance when you sat and deleted one post of mine after the other while i was in PM contact with your comoderator who saw nothing wrong with those posts?

 

 

 

>>>By implication you include me in the second group, I quite openly state, I have been to Cambodia on multiple occasions, I have enjoyed the company of many women, none of whom were in any way indentured. I know this, I am a good judge of character, and I don't condone under age or indentured prostitution.

 

To equate men who travel and indulge in P4P as condoning under age or indentured prostitution, is to agree with outfits like AFESIP. <<<

 

 

do you have any cambodian language skills to back your good "judge of character"?

i do not "accuse" you of condoning underaged or indentured prostitution. what i accuse you off is being a bit blind towards certain facts.

 

and it depends very much of where you went while indulging. if you went to the infamous brothelvillages, chances are more than high that you unknowingly went with indentured prostitutes.

 

 

 

>>>As a parallel, I relate a recent example of sensationalism on this subject. ECPAT in NZ hit the headlines<<<

 

i do not like ECPAT. i do not support ECPAT's more than dubious practises and exagerations. i think that ECPAT is a racist organisation that is led by zealots who have no much idea about what happens on the ground. i have also known ECPAT investigators who have left the organisation due to those problems.

and, ECPAT is *not* well liked by many NGOs who i know of doing very good work.

please do not put me into the same boat as those.

 

 

 

i have one question to you, and the other supporters of the cambodia issue:

 

why did none of you guys catch up on kamui's good idea to identify places of prostitution in cambodia where chances are extremely low to find an indentured prostitute?

isn't that what you would want?

or did i miss something here?

[Guest]

>>>And as for Gummigut's comment, I think he is quite right on the mark.<<<

 

 

...as usual...

 

 

 

>>>Bull, Fly, you attack every single post dealing with any form of prostitution in Cambo. You will not allow any posts on Cambo as they *may* deal with indentured / underage prostitution. To me this does seem to indicate that you see any prostitution in Cambo as evil.<<<

 

 

that is plain wrong, and an exageration.

have i ever attacked kamui for posting that he indulges, but tries his utmost to avoid indentured prostitution? i don't think so.

reality though is that almost every single post on prostitution in cambodia does mention the infamous brothel villages, and only a blind with a crutch might not see that indentured and underaged prostitution is endemic there.

 

 

lazyphil, a generally very neutral person posted something here worth mentioning. please read his post.

read jitagorn's post, please.

read kamui's post, please.

 

are all those posters part of my zealous conspiracy to supress everything on cambodia? hardly.

 

 

did you ever have a look into those brothels? if not, then please do so, and form your own opinion on wat is going on there.

for the ones near the thai border you don't even need a translator - many brothelowners and girls speak thai very well there.

[Guest]

>>>Or is this some racist prejudice that the supeior white men should know better? I really hate this constant distinction you use. They are all sex tourists, but you seem to despise the western ones and fairly dismiss the oriental man doing the same damned thing. Why is this?<<<

 

 

please do not assume and twist my posts around.

the reason that i mention westerners here in this context is simply that this board mainly consists of westerners, and a few bananas and coconuts. mainly though people with a western background.

i find people knowingly indulging in underaged or indentured prostitution disgusting, regardless of race, ethnicy or nationality.

 

 

>>>You had your fun, but fuck these other guys who want to enjoy the same. You've seen the light and how horible it all is, after geting your turn that is, right? Sounds a bit selfish and hypocritical to me, does it to you other guys out there?<<<

 

 

and that sounds like a hidden semi flame to me, including some lame attampt of mobbing. "does it to you other guys out there" as well...

 

 

 

>>> spent my honeymon in Siem Reap visitng Anglor Wat. I saw plenty of sing-a-song ladies, bar ladies, and freelancers about every night. They were not indentured any more than the Pattaya and Bangkok ladies are. There are venues in Cambodia just like in Thailand. Just like there are places in Thailand as horrible as you SOUGHT OUT to study "in depth". You could probably find the same in most third world countries and countries torn by war and civil strife. Come to America, you can even find it here.<<<

 

 

i doubt that you spent your honeymoon actually researching prostitution in cambodia. i wouldn't. i would not even go near to a brothel during my honeymoon.

 

there might very well be nicer venues in cambodia like in thailand. i am very keen on what kamui comes up with.

only though the often mentioned km 11 and similar places aren't. and even in martini i have seen girls of the ages of 14 and below.

and yes, in thailand there are more than a few areas nearly as bad as the cambodian brothel villages, only difference is that they are not on the initerary of most sextourists. while the ones in cambodia are, as you can see by the posts of coss and bibblis, who even goes so far in downplaying km 11 because "the kiddies are only in the minority".

hmmm, nice...isn't that close to a violation on boardrules?

 

and yes, in many asian countries you will find those horrific places, and in the west as well. that does not mean that i have to tolerate that sort of places, and advertising some sort of "sanuk" factor there, anywhere. and not in cambodia either. which is the topic of the present thread.

 

 

 

 

>>>These trip reports have been going around for ages, since before the internet started. Did you picket the bookstores that sold the books and magazines that told these stories? No? Why not? Maybe because it is a private thing between the book buyer and his conscience in what he wants to read. Should you be allowed to burn these books? No? Should you be allowed to stalk the authors of these stories at their job or home or on the street. No. You'd be placed on a Restraining Order and cited for harrassment.<<<

 

 

what are you trying to tell me now?

which sort of trip reports should be tolerated? the ones containg how much sanuk brothel villages in cambodia are?

can you instead of lots of rethoric explain *briefly* what can be contained in trip reports, and what is in violation to the boardrules.

i thought that advertising low end prostitution, ergo brothelvillages, are in violation to the board rules. given that - two posters here violated those rules within this thread: bibblis and coss. whatever...

 

i thought those rules were accepted and clear. i do not understand why we have a repetition of the old debate again right now, here.

what i see is an attempt of you, coss, and bibblis to revert the rules into the previous anything goes attitude.

 

i am still very confused by your POV. you talk about board rules which are rather clear concerning low end prostitution in asia. and with the same breath you tell me that those trip reports have been around before the internet and should therefore be tolerated.

what exactly is your POV on low end prostitution, especially regarding cambodia and the board rules. the ones that i thought were clear and solved a long time ago.

 

why do we have this debate again?

[thai3]

flyonzewall said:

reality though is that almost every single post on prostitution in cambodia does mention the infamous brothel villages, and only a blind with a crutch might not see that indentured and underaged prostitution is endemic there.

 

What an interesting thread for more than one reason.I think whatever people say flys point here is valid. Previous reluctance here to post cambo info seems to have been a main reason for the setting up of a 'rival' if a much inferior board where many here are memebers. Although I got chucked off it, apparently for being too PC, :: I recall most of the posts on cambo were about brothel villages, brothels elsewhere in the capital and martinis.If you knocked off all the places where there is a good chance of indentured/underage that would not leave very much to post about, as far as I know. Maybe we could have a few such posts?-peter

[bibblies]

flyonzewall said:

you can see by the posts of coss and bibblis, who even goes so far in downplaying km 11 because "the kiddies are only in the minority".

As in, they're off on a very different backstreet to the main road. If the backstreet behind Dynasty had a few small seedy places catering to pedos that most NP visitors didn't want to go near, would you say that someone visiting the Plaza was perpetuating the side show on the back that he didn't visit?

hmmm, nice...isn't that close to a violation on boardrules?

Is "close to a violation" a violation in itself now on flyonzewallplaza.com?

[Guest]

"Age of consent in Cambodia is 15 or 16, about the same for Germany, Belgium, UK, several US States, and many other other 'civilized' countries. Is Spain still 13? "

 

Never understood why beeing a prostitute would be better than beeing a maid or a clerk only when you're over a certain age ::

Remember reading that street prostitution was declared legal from 16 y old in Switzerland (or was it only Geneva??) I think it's 16 as well in Cambo

[jitagawn]

"Tried to be neutral? What's this then? "IMHO patronage in these types of venues is truly eternal gam mai dee -(bad karma) ...""

 

I said "FAIRLY" neutral-You conveniently left out the modfier.

I am allowed my opinion as are you.

My post stated that if it IS true well its not such a good thing.

WHAT WRONG WITH THAT? Hard for you to comprehend this stance I know.Sorry you feel threatened in your mongering.

 

True for my sensibilities I am probably on the wrong site.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"why did none of you guys catch up on kamui's good idea to identify places of prostitution in cambodia where chances are extremely low to find an indentured prostitute?"

 

As I already mentioned, I think this is a great idea and it would solve many of the issues surrounding this, but there is one big problem with it. Who will decide which places go on that list and which do not?

 

You and I both know that unless *you* have final say you will not accept any venue on the list that you do not agree with and you *will* complain about.

 

Sorry, Fly, but I *seriously* doubt you would abide by any list unless you created it, and that will bring us right back where we are now.

 

Oh, and please don't patronize me by telling me which posts I should read. I have read every single one in this thread as this is a *very* sensitive subject.

 

Sanuk!

[Central Scrutinizer]

Fly,

 

Sorry, I haven't much time to continue this today. I have a lot of school homework assignments to finish today and tomorrow, but believe me, I will reply fully as soon as I have the time to do so and do justice to your questions and comments in your post. I do have one point to answer though here below. You state:

 

"i doubt that you spent your honeymoon actually researching prostitution in cambodia. i wouldn't. i would not even go near to a brothel during my honeymoon."

 

Exactly true. I was with my wife and we had a wonderful and interesting time, but mostly concentrating on each other more than our surroundings, and even during this with all its distractions I managed to notice many different P4P venues that had nothing to do with brothels and indentured servitude. The Khmer ladies were very friendly and like the Thais, flirting shyly and slyly as they seem to do. Even on my honeymoon I noticed many opportunities for P4P for a man to take into consideration if he so leans toward that scene. THAT is my point. It's not all as you paint it to be, and neither is Thailand.

 

Mightn't you consider that maybe YOUR views are skewed because what you sought out to delve into were the worst aspects of the scene, and you WANTED to do an "in depth" study of the low end scene, which is as skewed I would submit as the skewed vision and version of an admitted P4P hound dog's version and vision would be.

 

Just something to ponder and think over before we next chat. I would like to know why you NEVER have written up and posted here your "in depth" study of the "low end" Cambo sex scene for the edification and education of us all here. Please do, I'd love for you to share more with us than your sermons on the evils you found there. (Which can be found damned near anywhere if you want to turn over rocks looking for slugs and slime.) Please, share your brilliant knowledge and "in depth" experiences with us. I'm sure we'd all find it fascinating, much more fascinating then your sermonizing and blatant harrassment of anyone writing on something you don't agree with. You keep citing your experiences, but you never "tell the story". We are just supposed to take you and your also skewed viewpoint and word as gospel and do what you want us to do. Take the time you take to post endlessly here in forums you don't even like to read about and actually write about your experiences, and share them with us. Maybe then we'll all have a better understanding of where you are coming from and can reach some middle ground of agreement where we can all have something we want here without any more problems. And yes, there is a problem here.

 

Cent

(Busy, but not ignoring your post)