pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 listen, after all, maybe it's just amatter of semantics, I just think that xenophobia is very close to hatred, and also is denoted by aggressivity and discrimination. Your example of youth giving you the wrong eye in a club, sure, maybe so, but is it due to historical dislike of foreigners? What if you are with other thais? Others should single you out as well. It seems to me, it's akin to many other countries, where the "stranger" in the crowd is open to aggressivity, when on his own . what if you have no girl with you? Shouldn't they be as aggressive. I dunno, seems like youth testosterones play a role in it. Thais create problems with other thais too, may not be about a chick, but it will happen. I also think that if you dislike every other nationality but yours, if you despise westerners, you will also despise what they bring with them, what they sell to you. This influence of the west happens on a grand scale, in thailand, it's not just nice cars. Not saying they love us for all this, but just that we have to relativize this dislike. To me, yes, it may lurk, but not so exarcebated, and it needs something to be prompted. Xenophobia needs no prompting (like having a nice chick with you in a thai club, for ex.), it's worn on the sleeve, so to speak. Actually, there is a part of the population i find close to xenophobia, in the way they address you, smirk at you, attempt to make you feel small, it's the cops. But the, thais don't trust or like them either.... How much do you think they like the Japanese? ------------------------ Plenty of prejudices, and memories of war sustaining, besides western Japan. maybe japanese act arrogantly, I dunno, but i don't think we, farangs, do. I don't see luk-k'ns having much success in the Thai society other than in the entertainment biz. ------------------------------------- I don't see many thais having much success in thai society... :: frequenting young hang-outs in middle sized Isaan towns and report here. ------------------------------ well, here, you knock at the wrong door. You may have not read it, but I am quite a hanger out in Issan. Never had a problem, and on the contrary, people come to me quite easily. Especially, when you come for the second night in a club. Sure, there seems to be some malcontents in the bunch, macho types with money or power maybe, but just a few guys, and they also give the snout to others thais as well. Also, by the second night, seems to be the rule, some girl will be with me. :: IME the ruling classes mirror, the world over, the societies they rule and they come from. -------------------------------------- My experience is different. but on the thais are thais, all the same, again, i think your insight in thai society (any, actually) is quite a bird' s eyeview if you say something like that. The point is not that they come from mars, BTW. I do not think that the thais who governed the country did it with the thais welfare in mind. They want to stay in power, get rich, for most of them. yes, money can corrupt people, it's a generalization, again nothing restricted to thais. Are you saying that you too agree that Thais are IN FACT xenophobic and racist (although you say "just" towards Cambodians, Vietnamese and Burmese as if that was a redeeming feauture)? ----------------------------------- can be, some more than others, just like in our countries. Never said "just". All for admitting insularity, lack of curiosity to the world outside the tip of their nose, racist, no, not against farangs. I stop at prejudices for this one. And not all. So, where is the disagreement? In the fact that we score better than Cambodians Vietnamese and Burmese?!? --------------------------------- not score better, the ingrained xenophobia (my definition as i read it in the dico: morbid dislike of another country) one can find against these countries has nothing to do with whatever way we are treated by thais. You yourself admit to feeling welcome just as a tourist, an outsider to their culture. ----------------------------------- well, i am a loner, i like being an outsider. does not bother me one bit. Especially when i feel welcome. So, how do you image the situation for people who reside there, work there, are married there, have half-Thai children and are still some sort of "tourists", outsiders to their culture? -------------------------------------------- I think they like to stay in thailand. I have yet to hear Bush or Blair (or Shroeder, de Villepin, Berlusconi, Zapatero ...) clearly and openly telling in a unified TV speech to the nation to beware of brown skinned (or Arab looking) folks and to blame on a particular breed of foreigners all the evils of the country... --------------------------------------------------- Bush? he uses the language that fits his idiotic notions that allowed him to invade another country and wreak havoc in it, and some. I prefer the smirk from a thai, personally. Wrong example here. But no contest. I am extremely proud of where I come from, every time I travel, i know how lucky I am to come from there. Still, I can think of many people who love a country, the people they met there, even though it could be the damnedest fascistic country in the world. To me, that's people, not words uttered by leaders. Maybe, the thais are in a time where they think they are victimized by other nations. it will pass. I don't think they hang that much on thaksin's words anyway. Just the flavor of the month (figure of speech). A foreigner residing there, working there, married there and with half-Japanese children won't never become a freaking Japanese citizen. -------------------------------- so, your view is about all asians? And, following what you said earlier (all thais mirror the same frame of mind) that even the japanese/thai family of the married foreigner care that much he never becomes a citizen? I have personally known of two cases ------------------------ that means of course all thais will do that. Sorry, but it is timer for me to say, if thais are racist, you can hold your own against them, pretty well in that department. I suspect many other countries would find a receptacle for your "better than you" stance. Seriously, the way you talk about thais, they might as well be cockroaches. What makes Thailand Thailand, Zambia Zambia and France France are the damned different shades of gray. ------------------------------------- that ain't saying much. :: How about life, you, me, different shades of gray. i mean, we are the same, eat, shit, sleep, you like this, I like that, but no point getting excited, after all,we are just what our countries are, and it's all within gray shades... and revert to consider it a great whoring/boozing holiday playground... --------------------------------------- that sure levels te ground down. Thailand can fit your size, no problem. Gray, indeed.... :: Try coming back as a Burmese, a Cambodian or a Laotian and let's see what Thailand and Thais "do" to you... --------------------------------------- you can't have it both ways. Now you claim a farang is not ostracized like a Burmese, etc.... My point, earlier. BTW, see what their own countries do to these guys as well. Too bad it just helps us higher status/wealth folks screw the bulk of them and keep them the despised subjects of the ruling class who, I assure you, have very little of that "enjoy the little we have" attitude... ------------------------------------- see, i told you they were not exactly playing the same game, thais that they are. Thanks, that was entertaining. But the next one won't be as much fun, can't reapeat the same arguments over and over. I leave you the last word if you wish. We can always discuss on different topics (gray, of course : in a different thread. PS: You may not be a racist, so apologies for that, but you sound like one here. 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buffalo_bill Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 William from Hongkong and others, on about 3 to 5 yearly visits I spend about 5 weeks in the kingdom since 1997. I have never been - attacked by anyone - treated unfriendly by ANYONE - met anyone who was interested in my urine - troubled by racist attitude - troubled by anything else - never been thrown from a balcony I have on the other hand - met an uncountable number of terribly friendly people , who probably think in private that Burmese are idiots, but is that my problem ? I am not Burmese. - found police always very helpful to me although I speak no Thai at all . No doubt they are mostly corrupt , shall we leave this problem to the Thais to deal with ? Who of the esteemed Nanaplaza - members is not corrupt if the discreet opportunity arises. ** Bar owners and other visitors can complain all they want about our attitudes and where we choose to holiday on long weekends, but until Thailand changes, our habits are not going to change. It is that simple. ** This sounds like a real threat to the kingdom, interesting to hear about your alternatives . Please do not say "Singapore " . BuBi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 PS: you forgot to say if you were in a dream-walking state while there? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 P-man , I am not committed to creating my own headache at any price. I leave this to the resident realists . I am just a consumer who enjoys the country. And I don't know of a better opportunity as per now, but I am waiting for William's hidden Asia secrets. BuBi women are everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 buffalo_bill said:- met an uncountable number of terribly friendly people , who probably think in private that Burmese are idiots, but is that my problem ? I am not Burmese. And this sums you up just perfectly. The funny thing is that it's me the one passing for a patronizing racist prick while guys regularly going to Burma to get their antiques and labelling as "a big time stupidity" the sanctions put on Burma by the international community in an effort to fight their inhumane regime, since they hinder their "enjoying the country", are given the thumbs up... I bet you would be as happy about the situation as you are now about the one in LOS if visiting North Korea or Saudi Arabia or Zambia or the apartheid-era South Africa you had had a ball. "Is that your problem?" After all, you yourself say that all you are is a "customer enjoying the country", looking for "better opportunities" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 ** And this sums you up just perfectly. ** It doesn't , it is just one of a million things that " sum me up " . None of these others you have any idea about. Don't judge about people from what crap they write on a funboard. I am in reality much worse than you assume . BuBi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 buffalo_bill said:** And this sums you up just perfectly. ** It doesn't , it is just one of a million things that " sum me up " . You sure? Consistently with what you have always been writing here IMHO it does, relatively to these matters. None of these others you have any idea about. Don't judge about people from what crap they write on a funboard. I am in reality much worse than you assume . Don't be too sensitive, we are not talking about our real selves but our digital persona. I've just been called a racist and I know in the real world I am not (quite the opposite I would say). They are judging "FIGJAM", I am judging "buffallo_bill". The "virtual" imagine of me projected by my posts here have evidently had some people confused so I am going to contest the flawed basis on which that statement has been done. I don't see you doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 figjam, this country is in reality so bad, I would long ago have jumped from a hotel in Pattaya if they had a decent 5-star hotel with ground floor balconies. BuBi Burma is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 "The funny thing is that it's me the one passing for a patronizing racist prick while guys regularly going to Burma to get their antiques and labelling as "a big time stupidity" the sanctions put on Burma by the international community in an effort to fight their inhumane regime, since they hinder their "enjoying the country", are given the thumbs up..." Figjam, U're really losing it now, like in the post U were claiming how loyal street fighters westerners are supposed to be compared to rat packing thais. A terrible rascit piece of writing and a suspicious vision if I compare to my experience in the west. Besides Bubi is a nice guy who in the sake of better statistics, avoids balcony dives while swinging swiftly between the uncivilised decadent murderers with his new Maserati. Sanctions against Burma are indeed a big time stupidity, and a great deal of hypocrysie. I for one will keep on patronizing the country if I can get wealthier on the way back and screw girls below 20 while there, please if U really wanna throw something at me, make it Bombay sapphire, Random, lost the KY, and young girlfriend is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted August 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 "treated unfriendly by ANYONE " No offense kind sir BUT I find this extremely hard to believe-almost laughable really Do you speak Thai? If yo did you would not say this :: The Bgs make rude remarks quite frequently but perhaps yee do not understand? My rose colored glasses damn it where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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