Stickman this week regarding violence .

[FIGJAM]

sourkraut said:My point being - what is your position, exactly?

In one post you get all mushy emotional about the perceived beauty of Thailand, in the next you admit that Thailand is a violent society, then you turn enthusiastically ambivalent, if not pointless. And now, after phoning one village girl you are steadfast again that there is no increase in violence.

Is it just me, or are you actually as confused as i am about the meaning of your posts?

Yep, "clear thinking" isn't exactly pattaya127's strong point

 

Taking as another example our discussion about Thai society's xenophobia he has, at different times during said discussion, stated that:

 

The whole of the Thais are xenophobic.

Only Thai politicians and bureaucrats.

Only Thai cops.

Only Thai politicians, bureaucrats and cops.

Mainly Thai politicians, bureaucrats and cops and less so the rest of the population.

Thais are xenophobic just towards Vietnamese, Burmese, Cambodians, Laotians and Japanese for "historical reasons".

Thais are mainly xenophobic with those ethnic groups and less so with the others.

 

In the post #425425 I have begged him: "please reach an agreement with yourself first and then present us a coherent view on this matter"

 

To this day pattaya127's real view on this important matter is unknown...

[elef]

Figjam,

 

I just presented my POVs and don't feel I want to discuss.

 

But some short comments.

 

Many "expert" expats in this thread have lost the contact with what is happening in the western world today. What I said was that even if Thailand is more violent now, so are also many western countries.

 

Some areas in the US are more violent than some areas in Thailand, so don't generalize too much!

 

elef

[Sukhumvit]

Stickman said:

I could not disagree more. All of the expats on here know about the situation in the West because that is where we all come from originally. And when we mention violence in Thailand we are not necessarily comparing it with the West. Some of us are simply stating that things are CHANGING and in some of our opinions, GETTING WORSE

 

As jjsushi was at pains to point out violence in the west "seems" to be on the increase. Sure expats/long term residents will have an idea of what's going on back home but they won't get the full picture. A guy was recently "rat-packed" in Merseyside and ended up dead with an ice pick in the brain. Was a racist killing and word is that he was getting the better of one of his attackers by boxing him when one of the other attackers decided to finish him. A woman was shot dead at a family christening in Peckham by a 14 year old just this weekend.

 

Unless you know people, either on the side of justice or eyewitnesses, (or indeed the bad guys), none of us will ever get a full picture of what is really going on in our own home towns. A guy almost had his hand severed by a samurai sword a few yards from my office. Only found out when saw them washing blood stains away the next day and asking. It was a road rage incident which escalated. Wasn't in the papers. Lots of bad blood between local gangs who regularly flash their guns in a nearby sports centre as a show of bravado. Again, not in the papers. A young guy was hospitalised by bouncers in a local nightclub. Told to call his father to the club they did the same to him. Over mistaken identity. Not in the papers. The examples go on. I'm sure that there are lots of other incidents that I, and others, are totally oblivious to in my local area. Speak to older people with a little knowledge and they'll have their own examples of the Teddy Boys in the '50's and razor gangs etc.

 

So, maybe it's a case that the violence was always there and it's just that the expats were not aware of it before? As their circles of friends increase, knowledge of the language etc they become more attuned to what the country is really like.

[FIGJAM]

elef said:

Figjam,

 

I just presented my POVs and don't feel I want to discuss.

 

But some short comments.

 

Many "expert" expats in this thread have lost the contact with what is happening in the western world today. What I said was that even if Thailand is more violent now, so are also many western countries.

 

Some areas in the US are more violent than some areas in Thailand, so don't generalize too much!

 

elef

So, what are you trying to say?!?

What's exactly your take on the matter of violence in Thailand??

 

Given that many "expert" expats in this thread have lost the contact with what is happening in the western world today

Given that Thailand is more violent now

Given that many western countries are more violent now

Given that Some areas in the US are more violent than some areas in Thailand

 

What is missing, in your "point of view", is... your point of view!

Are you agreeing that Thailand is more violent than the West? Is it less violent? Is it exactly the same?

 

Or, rather, you do not really have a "point of view"?

For sure, you are not giving it to us.

 

 

N.B. Generalizing doesn't mean negating the exceptions or the minority cases, on the contrary means taking them into the equation with all the rest and forming a general principle generally (and not always) applicable.

[shygye]

[color:"green"] The western countries, USA but also Holland and Sweden have changed and are a lot more violent now than some years ago.

[/color]

 

The crime rate in the USA has decreased over the past 20 years.

[elef]

If you read my post again I started with agreeing with JJ, so to understand my POV you must first reread his posts. Your general attitude and inability to understand what is written is exactly why I don't feel I want to discuss this.

 

For everybody else than you who must do it the hard way, my POV is that Thailand in general is more violent than most western countries. Some areas in western countries are however at the same level as the worst in Thailand.

[FIGJAM]

elef said:

If you read my post again I started with agreeing with JJ, so to understand my POV you must first reread his posts. Your general attitude and inability to understand what is written is exactly why I don't feel I want to discuss this.

 

For everybody else than you who must do it the hard way, my POV is that Thailand in general is more violent than most western countries.

Quote from jjsushi: "I just don't accept the theory that Thais are "more" violent than others".

 

It seems you are as much of a clear thinker as pattaya127...

 

Your general attitude and inability to understand what is written is exactly why "I wanted to do it the hard way".

[Guest lazyphil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/4196944.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4193250.stm

 

just 2 examples of how these things are going on here in places.

[FIGJAM]

shygye said:

[color:"green"] The western countries, USA but also Holland and Sweden have changed and are a lot more violent now than some years ago.

[/color]

 

The crime rate in the USA has decreased over the past 20 years.

Yes, Gadfly1 has already pointed it out but it has, interestingly, gone unnoticed by most...

 

Also in Italy, stats show that violent crimes against the person have been diminishing (with the notably exception of rapes, for whose raise illegal immigrants, who are mostly males, are almost entirely responsible).

[elef]

You still must read more and learn more.

 

Thais as individuals are not more violent than we in the west. You must add culture, religion and history to get the result that Thailand is more violent than Sweden and Switzerland. Still some areas in our swedish bigger cities are as bad as the worst in Bangkok.

 

Is Thailand more violent than USA? In the biggest american cities the situation is IMO worse than Bangkok. If you compare some nice american suburbs with Thailand outside Bangkok I think you're right. On the other side I've visited rural areas in Thailand which have less violence than many not so big american cities. So all generalizations are dangerous.