White-faced refugees from Islam

[David_66_UK]

We live in an age when the Western civilization has learned to respect human rights and to solve (or live with) their differences in a non-violent way

 

Yes, BUT only with other Western countries, plus Russia and probably now China, because after a couple of thousand years of killing each other "we" have figured out that no one is going to be able to "win" and therefore it is a practical step to stop trying to steal each others resources (whatever the desired resource is at a given time) plus having these allied in one form or another (or at least NOT as armed enemies) is quite helpful when it comes to extracting resources from the rest of the world.

 

These rules do not in practice really apply outside the "West".

 

IMHO Both George W and the Mad Mullahs are quite right in that a war is being fought as the West is fighting to make sure that the Muslims cannot create a power that can compete materially against the West and to this end as well as of course making sure we can get the oil at a cheap price (it IS still cheap........guess what price it would be per barrel if it was ALL owned by Microsoft :, BUT the war aim is also to make sure that they do not and cannot use the oil wealth they are given to actually start to build anything sustainable that could later compete with the West. Making sure that the wealth comes back into the Western economic system is also a nice touch.

 

IMHO it isn't anything against the Muslim religion per se, it is just that Islam is the only flag that this part of the world and bit's of teh rest of it) are likely to band together under. It wasn't that long ago that PanArab Nationalism was the bogey man, but THAT was easy to divide and rule.

 

If I was a Muslim living in Muslim world I would be rather pissed off too. But I am not.

[chuckwoww]

Good post. The trick all along has been how to get the oil and keep the Muslim world divided. The best way is to install compliant governments. Creating chaos is another way. It's worked fine in the past but right now the biggest wild cards are Iran and the Iraqi insurgents.

[Chlp]

David66UK said:

IMHO Both George W and the Mad Mullahs are quite right in that a war is being fought as the West is fighting to make sure that the Muslims cannot create a power that can compete materially against the West and to this end as well as of course making sure we can get the oil at a cheap price

I do not believe that's the case.

 

The combined exports from ALL Arab countries, excluding oil, are less than exports of Finland. Let's face it, despite all of their petrodollars, Arab countries just don't represent a threat of becoming healthy economies, let alone an economic superpower.

 

Besides, if this were the motivation for the war, the U.S. would be waging wars on China and India, who are projected to become superpowers within a few decades.

[Flashermac]

Most definitely no competition with the west, at least not with the governments they have now anyway. And what do the ME countries really have except oil? Years ago I taught some Saudi Arabian army officers. They smiled a lot and were friendly enough, but I had to have a dapper and very likeable Sandhurst trained officer from Aden explain everything to them in Arabic. (Why the Saudi government sent those captains to study in English is beyond me. Politics, most likely.) Furthermore, all of the technical side instructors told me that the Saudi officers would not actually do anything themselves. While the officers from other foreign countries would taking electronic equipment apart, seeing how it worked, learning everything about it ... the Saudis simply sat there. After all, they were COMMISSIONED OFFICERS and did do things other than give orders. Enlisted men were supposed to do all of the work, so why should they dirty their hands? That was their ingrained attitude and there was no changing it. Now the Saudis do tend to rank among the nutters of the Arab world, but they also are among the wealthiest and amongst those "most likely to succeed".

 

And don't forget the imams almost to a man have stated that democracy is "incompatable" with Islam. More moderate Muslims complain that once upon a time the Islamic world was known for its science and mathematics. The Arab lands were even ahead of the west in this respect. But for the past few centuries, "knowledge" and "scholarship" has consisted of memorising the Qu'ran (which is what makes one a mullah). An illiterate peasant who can recite the Qu'ran without making a single mistake receives more respect than the most brilliant PhD or MD! And when a Saudi prince went into space on a NASA mission, many mulahs were shocked ... claiming that Muslims have no business in space. Space belongs to Allah.

 

As long as the current medieval mentality persists, does anyone seriously think the Islamic world can present a material challenge to the west? The goal of the Muslim radicals who fly airliners into buildings or blow themselves up is openly announced as aimed at forcing the west to allow the Islamic world to crawl back into its shell and leave everything the way the Wahabis think that Allah told them to 1300 year ago.

[Guest lazyphil]

Tony Blair is talking of going all out for Nuclear power ::....fuck the ME oil ::

[Flashermac]

Meanwhile, those nasty Christian fundies have struck again!

____________________________________________

 

THE NATION

23 Nov 2005

 

An official beheaded in Pattani

 

Suspected Islamic militants decapitated a local government worker and left his head in a fertilizer bag on a roadside in Thailand's restive Muslim-majority south, police said Wednesday.

 

Volunteers who help security forces defend southern villages found the head of Anek Ngernmool, 31, some two kilometres (1.5 miles) from his body early Wednesday on the side of an unfinished road in Lipasango village of Pattani province, police said.

 

Anek had been reported missing late Tuesday. He had worked for the local government collecting garbage fees.

 

Police said they had not found a note or any other messages with his body.

 

Anek is the 15th Buddhist man to be beheaded by suspected insurgents since early 2004.

 

More than 1,000 people have died since unrest broke out in January 2004 in Muslim-majority provinces along Thailand's border with Malaysia.

[paul101]

 

 

I think too much is made of the achievements in the middle east re science and maths. Mostly it was earlier cultures like the Babylonians who were responsible for this rather than later islamic culture. I'm not suggesting islamic culture comes up with nothing, some nice bits of architecture, art and poetry but not much original scientific thought. How many from islamic nations have won nobel prizes in maths and sciences?

[paul101]

 

 

Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

David66UK said:

IMHO Both George W and the Mad Mullahs are quite right in that a war is being fought as the West is fighting to make sure that the Muslims cannot create a power that can compete materially against the West and to this end as well as of course making sure we can get the oil at a cheap price

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Never been able to understand ths argument, where was the oil in germany,korea, vietnam, grenada, somalia, afghanistan etc etc etc. To suggest that USA foreign intervention in the middle east is about oil just does not stand up IMO, after all if it was why not have spent the billions spent on the war to stock up on oil and save yourself the trouble? But if it was all about oil then the 'cheap price' never seemed to have come about. There is plenty of oil, it's the processing capacity that's lacking I think.

[BelgianBoy]

paul101 said:

How many from islamic nations have won nobel prizes in maths and sciences?

Two..... but what is the point ????

You are measuring 3rd worlds with 1st world standards.....

 

BB

[paul101]

suadum said:

paul101 said:

'The Qur'an prescribes a humanitarian approach to slavery'

 

Something of a contradiction surely, and not much evidence to support the claim.

Of course you would not know just what the Quran says would you? I thought so.

 

4:36 "(Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess."

 

If you so adamently believe in the bad that it contains, then by logic, you have to believe in the good as well...for just like the Bible, one cannot cherry-pick verses with which they agree and skip the rest. It's all or nothing baby!

 

SD

 

 

But you don't need to cherry pick what you want to as the clerics explain away opposing suras on the basis of the later ones superceding the earlier ones. Where this is still embarassing with the, kill all the unbeliever type suras they explain this away by stating that some suras were not meant to be taken literally or for all time. It's the clerics who refuse to accept it as all or nothing, they are the ones who cherry pick in their deperation to give it all a more acceptable image. Is any of it the word of god? lets hope not. I see the pro quote you give is also accepting of slavery as the norm.