Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Bar girls are no less moral then punters, plain and simple. Also keep in mind, Farang morals are radically different than Thai/Issaarn morals...comparing the 2 is just wrong, like comparing apples to oranges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Without dragging the punter into this, and lets face it, a lot have morals but leave them in the departure lounge when they board their plane to LOS. Let's say all bars in LOS put all girls on a salary of 7,500 BHT a month. How many do you think would stick around if they could get a job elsewhere for a similar salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I will take a stab at it... Prostitution just like gun control, abortion, the death penalty, feminism, the role of the gov, etc has a critical moral conceptual system involved in the process on how one's view each topic above.. Unless you flat out don't believe that metaphorical morality is gounded in nonmemetaphirical morality, one will exhibit various levels or degree of beliefs on these types of subjects.. It is not a question of right or wrong (yet that is exactly how radicals, extremists, or fundamentalists will view the other camp), but a range of opinions/beliefs over an entire spectrum... From your post, are you saying if a person who takes a different take on prostitution, abortion or death penalty from yours is wrong for having that belief system? Do you not believe political perspectives are derived from systems of moral concepts? Do you have a different take on the concept of " experiential well-being"? Which one are you better off if ....healthy vs sick, happy vs sad, light vs dark, strong vs weak, rich vs poor, free rather than imprisioned, clean vs flithy, beauty vs ugly, etc. Probably not.... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 That's what is so much fun about Thailand. Saint one minute and sinner the next... Further research... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 "...Let's say all bars in LOS put all girls on a salary of 7,500 BHT a month. How many do you think would stick around if they could get a job elsewhere for a similar salary?..." All of them. 7,500 is peanuts to these girls. Many of them have guys sending them more than this yet, still work in the bars for more, as much as they can get. Hell, I know girls married to farangs who still work, the magic number seems to be 30,000+ a month guess what, give them 40,000+ and they'd still work (some/most of them) this is about AS MUCH AND MORE! While they can get it. Sad is, as I said before, they get into a life style and incur expensenses they can't maintain, often leaving them with nothing... Has anyone else noticed at the end of the month, you see more and more educated girls in the Nana parking lot trolling? When the 9/11 crunch hit, and a lot of office girls lost their jobs, notice how many showed up on Sukhumvit? This is fast easy money, and a fairly reliable source of it for a good looking girl while she is young and good looking... As I said, a compleately different set or cultural values at work here, as consumers of the product, we are perhapes not best fit to judge...if all these girls suddenly got western values/morals and stopped fucking for a living, where would it leave us? home humping our fists that's where! So as much as we ponder this issue, do we really want to see it change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 From your post, are you saying if a person who takes a different take on prostitution, abortion or death penalty from yours is wrong for having that belief system? Do you not believe political perspectives are derived from systems of moral concepts? I have not stated my belief on the matter. One person's "belief system" cannot be wrong IMO. The beliefs work within that system so they are absolutely correct. So long as everyone has the same beliefs. But in a community where different beliefs proliferate, one cannot just say "this is wrong" and expect everyone to agree. They need to provide reasons. If the "experiential well-being" concept of morality is applied to a BG, she would certainly say she is moral because the money she brings in improves her wellbeing on all scales (money to pay for health care, money to family gives her moral credits, she does not have to engage in back deforming rice picking so she will stay beautiful longer, etc...). I don't ascribe to the experiential wellbeing concept. A person's view on prostitution is much more likely to be determined by their personality type. Those who are extroverted thinking types are most likely to believe that there is something wrong with a girl selling pussy. Why is that? Because an extrovert is very focused on outside influences (such as the prevailing view that prostitutes are bad) and the thinking part of his psyche logically concludes that p4p violate societies prohibition therefore its not good. This is simplifying things. To put it another way. An extroverted thinker is very likely to be a law and order type person. If you break the law than you should be punished and the circumstances that led up to the whole thing are hardly important. External rules must be followed otherwise its anarchy. In contrast to the thinking type, a feeling type will be more interested in the circumstances surrounding the event before deciding on punishment if any. To put the question that I am asking on more concrete footing: Two 22 year old girls are standing out on Suk at 1am. Neither one drinks alcohol (only rarely), they don't smoke and don't take drugs. One has spent the day buying blouses in Pratunam and now has them laid out on a sheet on the sidewalk so she can sell to the working girls who wander around late at night. She buys them for 40 to 60 baht and sells them for 80 to 120 baht. She uses the profits to buy more blouses the next day, eat (rather than starve and be sick), pay rent, stay free from the factory jobs in her hometown and stay beautiful and healthy by avoiding the drudgery of a factory worker life. She is a pretty girl but always politely says no to the punters who express interest in her. The other girl has spent the day trolling the biergarten and gulliver's looking for a customer, but had no luck. She is available to go with a customer and uses the money she gets (just like the girl selling clothes) to eat and stay healthy (rather than starve and be sick), pay rent, stay free from the factory jobs in her hometown and stay beautiful by avoiding the drudgery of a factory worker life. She could buy clothes and compete with the other girl but is more interested in big money so she can send some home. Is the girl who is in the game less moral than the girl who is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I'll disagree here, and Say that a person's beliefe system can in fact be wrong. Face it, there are all sorts of nut cases in this world who have fucked up ideas about everything...hell, some people think it is o.k. to kill people who interracially date/marry...gonna tell me that beliefe system isn't wrong? O.k. discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Was trying to say that within that system, i.e. the group that holds those beliefs, its not wrong. Jews believe it is wrong to eat pork. This is correct if you are jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I also think a lot of it has to do with the girl, and when she enters the job, and how she spends her money. Most I know more less blow it. I don't think it is the scene that teaches them to blow money, but rather the back ground they come from... Myself, I had little money to blow growing up, when I finally had some, I had a tendancy to blow it also (product of my environment), until someone took me aside and told me about the future, and how to plan/prepare for it...barring that influence, I would have kept going. Likewise, as a teen ager, I was a delinquent. Had it not been for a decent judge in Juvenile court (little misunderstanding as to who owned the car I was driving), and 1-2 other guiding hands, I might have gone another way. Point is, these girls may lack these influences...many of them may have mothers/aunts/cousins/older sisters who did this as well, and just see it as part of life... As I posted before, my beloved Si Sak*t girl is doing really well bilking some Austrian tosser every month (and no doubt others) while still working the bar (he thinks she's back on the farm). Result is, her little sister (a former gogo dancer) (and no doubt others in her family/village) sees how much she has, the house she is building etc, and now wants to ditch her kid and husband, and return to the life, so she can have the same...took SSG 5+ years to get this far, and isn't finished...the cycle never ends...oddly, SSG, her 2 sisters, and many cousins have all worked or work in the trade still, and yet the family is still poor. Now where would you point the finger? at each girl individually? or at the people raising them/guiding them? How do you stop what influences these girls? Should these girls have daughters, what do you think they will expect them to do when they (the mothers) are old sick and need money? I have likened it to ghetto kids here who get involved in drug sales/crime, and use the excuse they have no other way to make the big money...trouble is, they want more money then an educated professional makes...these kids want the money athleates and rappers flaunt, not what a doctor, lawyer, business guy/woman or even a city worker makes...to them, it just isn't "enough..." No realistic idea of what it takes to get comfotably/leagally. Same in the villages, see a girl with a decent house on 10K a month and the girl with a better house and 40K a month, without a proper hand to guide them, which way do you think they'll go...? I pulled a girl from Soi 7 Beer Garden (another board member met her) who had had a Uni education, and previously a decent job paying 20K + a month, she had a car and credit card bills to pay. She told me she saw girls in her village go to Pattaya, and now the family had a hughe house, trucks etc..."...I went to Uni can't make same money, what can I do...?" In summary, I'd say it starts with the girl herself, and the influences that raised her, but of course, the scene doesn't help. But as I said earlier, as a punter, I am no one to judge, just stating my opinions, which are like assholes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 soongmak said: So? Does that make them superior or something? What's wrong with a girl selling her body? Just because a girl decides to sell her pussy doesn't make her a lesser person. . I would believe that if someone is whoring themselves out they would feel less about themself and would consider themself a lesser person. Many seem to hide the true nature of their job and get embarrassed if they were "outted" in public. Regardless it is definately not a job any parent would really want for their child. The job is a miserable existance, almost slave-like. In the long run is sucks the life out of a person. In general, I am sure the girl would never consider the drugs, gambling, heavy drinking, scamming and lying before they entered the proffesion. So yes the profession does make most of them a lesser person with heavy baggage to carry after they leave the job. You can easily watch an innnocent happy-go -luck young issan lady turn into a real whore over a matter of a few months. Once they see the scene as normal they tend to be ruined, my best guess is a couple of months for most of them that enter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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