Middle East crisis.

[MaiLuk]

SOMF.

[chuckwoww]

The 'splutter' was a response to McBif's apology. Sheesh.

[MaiLuk]

I know that. I don't know what it means. Don't know what somf means. That is why i am here.

[chuckwoww]

SOMF SIDPERS Organization Master File

SOMF Special Operations Memorial Foundation

SOMF Sons of Maitland, Florida.

SOMF Sit on my face.

 

Best I can do.

[Steve]

The reasons for arab anger are varied and there are a myriad of reasons probably that culminates in their anger.

I've read part of it stems from their place in the world. At one time they led the world in knowledge, with introducing concepts in mathematics (they gave the west the west 'zero' and some algebraic functions) and science, now they are way behind. Also, that they can't understand that no matter how faithful they are to islam, the immoral, infidel west continues to get richer and enjoy a far higher standard of living.

 

The leaders they have are either corrupt and/or icompetant and have succssfully convinced the 'arab stret' that the west is responsible for their plight. They control the media in their countries and remember the internet is a fairly new medium. The papers, tv news, etc. all blame Israel and their 'zionist' masters.

 

Some of the immigrants become even more radicalized when they are in the west. Some are disenfranchised and some are angry over the bountiful wealth in a society they regard totally immorral and undeserving.

 

The strange thing is that the moslems in Europe and England are more radical than their American counterparts. In parts of LA, private islam schools are popping up (especially in the san fernando valley) because parents fear their children are becoming too americanized and too many have been willing to date and marry non moslem Americans. The children have become totally americanize in large numbers. However, you have 2nd generation pakistanis in England who are more radical.

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Good points Steve. I don't know why muslims in the West are so angry. Jealousy may be a part of it. Confusion about sex. Maybe they want revenge for the past.

 

That Muhammed cartoons crisis really touched a raw nerve.

[Steve]

Sorry for the typos, I was on a friend's laptop and couldn't proof (but I rarely proof anyway, too lazy..haha)

[Steve]

Moslems are so wound up now, they look for any excuse. Its a bit too late to do anything about it. They are at the point now that nationality doesn't even matter. They regard a British or European citizen of the moslem faith as one of their own and anything happpens to him or her its an affront on them as a religion and people. They are considered moslems first and French, English, German or whatever a distant second.

 

Also, a lot of them now think they have the right under islamic law to punish the west for any desecration. The split with the west is complete in many respects. The anger with the west is unifying and is helping a pan-islam feeling.

 

The governments are stil two faced. They denoune the west in their internal media and extend friendship or court the same wester leaders they denounce.

 

I read once where foreign leaders try very hard to get the U.S. president to visit as it brings them great prestige. A state visit is seen as legitimizing them.

[chuckwoww]

I suppose the real question is are they justified in getting wound up?

[McBif]

...they can't understand that no matter how faithful they are to islam, the immoral, infidel west continues to get richer and enjoy a far higher standard of living.

 

In one of my rare original thoughts and one that I've yet to see mentioned anywhere it struck me that perhaps what has helped to drive Islamic nationalists over the edge is the rise of non-Western economies.

 

I think we are all aware (or can imagine) that non-Western nationalist movements took a lot of interest in the modernisation and rise of Japan starting in the late 19th century. The Turks after the debacle of WWI thought they could do the same. They didn't succeed, but produced what I think (at least, as a Westerner) is the most creative, open, stable and productive Islamic country.

 

But Japan could be seen as a one-off. An anomoly.

 

Then the Islamic nationalists witnessed the rise of HK, Singapore and Korea. Hmmm...

 

Then Thailand, Taiwan... WTF?

 

I believe that the Muslim masses generally regard their culture and religion as self-evidently superior to all others. As do Thais and Japanese and Indians etc. Westerners do too, but we have this sickly, self-flagellating guiltiness - at least as regards our elites - that is unprecedented in history. The West invented multi-culturalism and moral relativism after all.

 

But it's one thing to regard yourself as superior and quite another to see what's staring you in the face.

 

Anyway, just a thought: the rise and success of non-Western societies has a lot to do with the current Jihad.