Middle East crisis.

[McBif]

I'm happy to discuss this fascinating topic but please don't misquote me. I might get peeved. To put it mildly.

 

The Wit and Wisdom of Chuck

 

"I'm guessing Israel or the pentagon strategists would sacrifice a US carrier or two to get this one (war with Iran) going." - Nope.

 

"An attack by Israel on Iran would be the ultimate shit hit the fan scenario. Those US soldiers in Iraq would be sitting ducks. How many of them need to die to get the serious missiles flying?" - Huh?

 

"Evel has never had his land occupied or stolen." - Well, that takes care of him.

 

"The Palestinians are living on garbage heaps already so they probably feel like they don't have much to lose." - Blameless victims.

 

"There was a time when the Israelis thought they had a nice compliant labour force. Those days are gone." - Huh?

 

"They (the Palestinian Arabs) spend half their lives queuing at checkpoints. If they complain they get their houses bulldozed or thrown in jail." - Let's see... you "complain" and your house is bulldozed. I thought you had to let guys store arms in your place, fire rockets from your roof, dig tunnels under the the carpet etc. to piss off the Israelis.

 

"It's interesting to me the way you keep saying the Palestinians should just settle down on the reservation and be good little indians." - The Palestinian Arabs only wish they were getting the free money, extra rights etc. the Indians in Canada get.

 

"A viable Palestinian state is Israel's worst nightmare." - Oh?

 

"The only thing they can do is fire off a few rockets to remind the world that they are refugees." - Sniff...

 

"You don't seem to grasp the situation, elef" - He's coming along.

 

"I think you finally got there, elef" - Good for you!

 

"I don't believe jihadis are coming to cut all our heads off but I do think their strategy is to drive the Israelis crazy, drive oil prices up until American consumers feel the pain and weaken the links between the the US and Israel." - If they could cut all our heads off, they would. As they do whenever they get the chance.

 

"Not too many Arabs left in Jerusalem now." - 40% of the population.

 

"All you have to do is imagine an Arab colony in somewhere like Rhode Island. Armed to the teeth with nuclear bombs and an unlimited supply of funds. I bet that would be popular with the rest of America." - I'm not sure what this is an analogy of, but it borders on the supernatural.

 

"I think Plan B was to spread democracy (read Israel friendly) governments throughout the region." - Now wouldn't that be a horrible thing: a dozen Turkish-style societies in the region.

 

"And Hamas don't have to worry about money anymore. Israel and the US have shut the banks down. That'll teach the evil bastards." - Now what did Hamas ever do to deserve cutbacks in their allowance from the Crusaders?

 

 

 

Hey, I don't enjoy combing through 6 pages of yap to find a guy's quotes (out of necessity none are in complete context) but Chuck more or less forced my hand. 10 minutes of my infinitely valuable time down the drain...

 

Somehow it's just not the old Chuck. Whether one agrees or disagrees with him, it's just not the old Chuck. The tone is disagreeable, no? Anybody read his stuff on Thailand Stories? Wonderful writer. Cool, calm, interesting, inventive, funny... Well, he's still inventive, to be sure.

 

Sorry if I myself am being condescending, but I'm not actually raving, am I?

 

But I too am working things out. There have been moments over the last few years when I've wondered if Osama and the lads are right and whether the West is even worth defending anymore. Why defend an over-fed, over-protected, underworked people who are spectacularly oblivious as to the sources of their good fortune? Hey, my stomach is full, my house is warm, I can walk to the corner unarmed... why, this is only the natural order of things!

 

So, if the West goes down, well it was a nice run up until about, oh, 1914. Lovely civilization. The best. Art, science, medicine, evolving political rights and economic organization. Aye, well. Let the defeatists and appeasers and the media hair boys and obesity and yob culture reign!

 

At least after we've surrendered it will be interesting to leave our Muslim friends to the tender mercies of the Chinese...

[chuckwoww]

LOL! Get a grip McBif. You really went back through all those posts to paint me as hysterical? I admit I do get a bit hyperbolic at the prospect of WW3 but mainly because I don't enjoy watching the world go to hell. I'm sensitive. What's wrong with that? I don't have any control over events but I can at least try to think things through.

 

I'm sure the strategists have considered taking huge American losses in Iraq if they decide to attack Iran. They aren't stupid. The only thing they can't gauge is the US public reaction. My impression is that there is no real appetite in the US for more military action in the Middle East. I don't see the UN or NATO rushing troops in either.

 

How about dealing with my comments post by post and lay off the veiled personal attacks? The only one in your list I'd revise is the one about the Arab population of Jerusalem. I'll do some research when I get a chance but I think your 40% figure is for Arab East Jerusalem. If it's correct then that would bolster the Palestinian case for having it as a capital in a viable Palestinian state...if and when the Israeli settlers leave the West Bank and refugees get the right of return.

[BKKanalist]

Israel is number one in US foreign aid. For many years Egypt was number two and may still be.

 

Since Pollard was convicted of spying, and the Israeli govt keeps demanding his release, I have strongly felt that Israel should not get one fucking cent in US aid.

[Steve]

You'd be amazed at the number of Israeli spies in the U.S. In fact, there were a few who were tracking a few of the 911 terrorists. Most of the spying is for military/industrial secrets. However, I have read that there is a lot of 'friendly' spying. America, England and France have spied on each other as well as work with each other. Its a weird relationship. If America has some military secret that we won't share, an ally may try to get it for themself so that they can have the latest weapon, satelite, etc. All parties know they don't share that info with their enemies (China, N. Korea, the then USSR). Some of the spying is industrial to give their own businesses an edge. After the cold war, American military was reportedly ease droppig on cel (mobile to non yanks) phone conversations regarding upcoming mergers, etc. in Europe. So much in fact that I think that the EU had enough and made a formal complaint when behind the scenes requests to stop it went unheeded.

 

This is not meant to excuse Israeli spying on the U.S. but put it in a bit more perspective. The split loyalty is what is troubling.

[Steve]

 

I'm sure the strategists have considered taking huge American losses in Iraq if they decide to attack Iran.

Strangely enough the best check against the Iranians was Saddam Hussein. If you recall he spent several years in the '80s warring with them.

[chuckwoww]

Strangely enough the best check against the Iranians was Saddam Hussein. If you recall he spent several years in the '80s warring with them.

 

Right. He was also a buffer between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

 

It boggles my mind to think that invading Iraq was ever seen as a constructive step towards peace in the region. (Another hysterical quote for McBif) Stay the course.

[Old Hippie]

"...Possibly Lieberman if his ticket had won and he ran on his own and won. He was a very centrist Democrat..."

 

Yeah, but he is an orthodox, or maybe a Ultra conservative Jew, and that was questioned during the election. I do find it interesting that so many put away the "issue" of his being Jewish, and voted for him, in FACT the MAJORITY of the voters!

 

Interesting would have been the Black vote for Powell, had he run as a republican vs running as a democrat.

 

The issue I think for a lot of people concerning Jewish politicians etc is that many jews tend to think as jews, rather than as Americans (same with the cubans in Miami thinking like Cubans rather than Americans, even though most maybe never even went to Cuba)...again, single issue votoers. If someone were indeed a staunch Jewish politician, could they be objective/non biased on the issues involving Isreal? I tend to think not.

 

For this reason, I have an issue with politicians getting into religion...issues like stem cell, abortion etc have been decided by the courts already, the law spoke, not the churches...yet politicians use their religious beliefs (or someone's beliefes) to cloud issues, and create more issues when/where they don't belong.

 

As for Jews controlling the banks, having big money/influence...then why would they (do they?) tend to vote democrat? one would think they would vote republican, as this is in the best interests of big money...

[cavanami]

Problem is, all we "know" is what we are fed (or not fed) from the news sources.

 

Have you ever seen these pictures anywhere in the USA media? I never have but they exist.

 

These pictures are of Muslims marching through the streets of London during their recent "Religion of Peace Demonstration".

 

Difficult to make the "correct" analysis if something when you are supplied insufficient or incorrect data, as what the news media supplies (or does not supply or the slanted material they supply).

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Cav,

 

Thanks for that link. Wonderful sentiments huh? I wonder why the press doesn't show full page ads of these idiots. I love the 'freedon go to hell' sign, and the 'Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer' signs. Lots of allusions to 911 and signs saying Europe's destruction is coming soon, at the hands of the Islamic terrorists. I'd love to see how ballsy these guys would be back in the country they or their parents came from? Would they stand up to those that are oppressing them and speak their minds? Would they even be allowed to? Yeah, in this case, maybe 'freedom go to hell'. :smirk:

 

Cent

[Julian2]

I agree it's pretty frightning stuff, although I still feel it's a reaction to "the whole world hates us" feeling that predominates amongst Muslims today. Sure they take advantage of the freedom available to them in England and the US and I seriously doubt that many would wish to return to their country of ethnic origin.

The problem is they provide a rich breeding ground for homegrown terrorists like the London bombers and this must only occur through a feeling of alienation and that their religion is under threat.

This suits Israel perfectly, their attitude is "Now you know what we have put up with for sixty years, now you know what they are really like."

I'm still not convinced that Mossad didn't know that 9/11 was coming, the presence of an American miltary presence fighting Muslims next door to Israel must be like a gift from Yahweh.