House votes to ban harsh CIA methods

[chelseafan]

The CIA should have been "smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind" a long time ago. The CIA is nothing more than a bunch of murderous thugs operating completely outside the law and outside the control of the American people. They're amongst the worst terrorists in history and have organized and funded terror campaigns against civilians on every continent in the past 4 decades.

 

They are literally no better than the Nazi SS.

 

 

One would like to think that these guys do more good than harm. They make mistakes for sure, but they are only human.

And please do remember that the terrorists will not give a hoot about blowing up innocent people or kidnapping some guy in a foreign country who is there to help.

I for one wouldnt care if the CIA have some 'terrorist' under detention and are using 'shady methods' to get information. One would hope that this is for the better good of democracy and freedom.

 

 

[chelseafan]

Phil, you won't catch any spook swimming in a sewer, as you put it. They spend most of their time terminating people who get in their way and imposing despotic governments on unwitting non-Americans.

 

America should concentrate on looking after its own people instead of maintaing its empire across the world, complete with almost 200 overseas bases.

 

 

I agree with this, but in the process, the trails are endless, what defintion does "concentrate on looking after its own people" count towards. Arresting Islamic dudes who are plotting to blow up various part of the world (including the US) surely counts towards what you are saying.

Just because the terrorist doesn't live within the US boundary doesn't mean they are not a threat....

 

There's no denying that in the past the CIA have taken part in assinations and to this part they should be held accountable, however, I truly believe that they are doing the best they can whilst having one arm tied behind their back through politics.

 

[chelseafan]

That's entirely untrue Phil. Their empire is costing them money,hundreds of billions of tax payers' dollars that could be spent on education, or that could even go towards tax cuts, giving the people more control over how they choose to use their resources.

 

Homelessness, poverty and house repossessions are big problems now, so the empire obviously isn't looking after the 'people'. At best it is allowing the elite to line their pockets whilst the 'people' are sent off in their thousands to die on a roadside in some foreign sand pit.

 

So you are happy to shave a few cents of the dollar in income tax rather than stopping islamic radicals from blowing up the world ?

Unfortunately the money has to come from somewhere, I am more of the idea than rather spend billions on the new nuclear weapons the money could be put to better use through surviellance and espionage. But hey, what do I know...

 

 

[Steve]

Still, the budget doesn't need to be so big probably. The interesting thing was that Rumsfeld wanted to overhaul the defense and cut out a lot of the fat when he was asked to head the department but then 911 happened and he went completely the other way.

[..]

So you are happy to shave a few cents of the dollar in income tax rather than stopping islamic radicals from blowing up the world?

The problem is that I am just not buying that a few goat-fuckers in a cave somewhere are even 0.1% the threat that the old Soviet Union was, yet we are spending 10x yearly on the "terraists" then we did at the height of the Cold War.

 

Since when did the world become so pussified?

 

The "terraists" are a bunch of marginalized idiots who love running their mouth and have no power to do anything of consequence. I'll take that back...they have learned that simply by running their mouth they can get all the Westerners to cower under their beds. And like any immature teenager, they are loving this newfound "power" they have.

 

"War on Terror" is simply a sham to line the pockets of the defense industry and to erode the power of the people in democracies around the world; cuz the rich always want to get richer and the powerful always want to have more power...

 

Regards,

SD

[..]

I for one wouldnt care if the CIA have some 'terrorist' under detention and are using 'shady methods' to get information. One would hope that this is for the better good of democracy and freedom.

But ignoring due process and habeas corpus is totally *against* the concept of freedom and democracy. So how can doing that be for the better good of said system?

 

How many of these guys who have been tried (even in the kangaroo courts of Gitmo) have been found guilty? Not many. The majority have been released.

 

What if the CIA decides Chelseafan is a terrorist? Yer fooked. You have no recourse, no law, no nothing. And you just have to sit there and take it. Don't give me the bullshit that "if you're not guilty then you have nothing to worry about." What about poor bastards like this, and this for example.

 

Either you believe in freedom and democracy or you don't -- there is no partial credit here. If you do, then you know what's happening is wrong and needs to stop, not make excuses for it.

 

Regards,

SD

[bust]

Beggars the question......who really are the evil ones

 

While Al qaeda are undeniably brutal they don't hide or deny their actions.

 

The US military on the other hand

[ALHOLK]

One would like to think that these guys do more good than harm

 

You mean like the murder of Mossadeq and Salvador Alliende who were democratically elected.

 

terrorists will not give a hoot about blowing up innocent people

 

Much like the USAF.

 

I for one wouldnt care if the CIA have some 'terrorist' under detention and are using 'shady methods' to get information

 

Did you feel the same when Iraqi forces used similar methods on a Brittish Tornado pilot. Although it wasn't organized torture at the same level as Gitmo and Abu Ghrahib and other places

 

that this is for the better good of democracy and freedom.

 

The US seems to have a different definition of democracy which seems to be: "Do as we say and hand over your natural resources or will send in your soldier animals to rape and kill your children"

 

 

[ALHOLK]

So you are happy to shave a few cents of the dollar in income tax rather than stopping islamic radicals from blowing up the world ?

 

I would be happy to pay taxes to stop christian retards who think think that a 2000 year old book takes precedence over established science.

[Steve]

 

The "terraists" are a bunch of marginalized idiots who love running their mouth and have no power to do anything of consequence. /quote]

 

The planes into the twin towers and the pentagon showed they DO have the power to do things of consequence.

We have the wrong administration running the war on terror. Hopefully the next administration and subsequent ones do a better job.

 

The current administration has successfully used 911 as a reason to do certain things.

 

Just my opinion but I go back to my original post in this thread and say its proper oversight without much risk of classified information getting out. Just like in many countries, its the career bureaucrats that run everything and they know they will outlive any administration because the President can only be there for 8 years.