Berkeley Backs Off On Banning Marines

[Steve]

For the amount oil needed for non transportation use, it won't require the billions spent in the middle east. I'm not saying to do away with oil totally. Just the industries like transportation that requires us to be in the middle east. Basically reduce the reliance to the point where the middle east isn't needed any longer. We still use trains even though in the late 1800s the largest stocks in the U.S. stock market were all rail stocks.

 

Also, never underestimate the ingenuity of man. Once we move in that direction we'll see vast innovations. Its always happened.

[chuckwoww]

I think it will be a question of economics eventually. As long as we can afford to drive our own cars we will.

 

[Steve]

What I would propose is to use a carrot instead of a stick to change society. Lets use fuel cells as an example as one alternative (could be hybrids or whatever).

In the states, the Federal and State governments would have a timetable to convert all government vehicles to fuel cell. This would create an instant market for the car companies to come up with a viable option. Their R&D departments would work hard to compete to see who gets this multi billion dollar contract for the federal and state governments.

Offer tax abatements or amortization write offs to companies that carry large fleets of cars (Rental car companies, UPS, Fed Ex, Trucking companies).

Offer inviduals the same. They can buy 'regular' cars but if they buy a fuel cell car they can amortize the cost and write it off on their taxes over a certain period of time, say 3 years or 5 years.

Offer any business that will house a re-fueling kiosk, a mortarium on sales taxes or a very reduced salex tax. The oil company controlled gas stations will be the slowest but if they will see the financial benefit to having at least one refueling kiosk when they see the cost of installation can be amortized as a write off as well as the profits not taxed at nearly the same rate as oil.

Have areas of the parking lots of state and federal buildings have refueling kiosks.

Give people an economic incentive and they'll change.

Its not the first time the government has created an industry through economic incentives.

A whole industry in the manufacturing, repair and sales of these new cars will create a whole new set of jobs.

About a 1/5 of the population was directly or indirectly tied to the rail industry in the late 1800s. What happened to all those jobs when cars came into being? Those jobs shifted to other industries. The same will happen again.

[chuckwoww]

People will always want and need to travel. But there are also plenty of reasons why given a choice people choose large cars. It's not hard to see why SUVs are so popular. I guess the key is the economic incentive part. Getting the government to lead the way makes sense. Somebody should put you in charge of the Department of Transportation CS.

[rogueyam]

If the gang will forgive an on-topic post to this thread, then I am happy to provide my first-hand report from the front, the People's Republic of Berkeley. It was a gorgeous day, perfectly clear and just slightly cool, and the demonstration lasted from before dawn until well into the evening. The meeting is on now, and here's the streaming video:

 

http://berkeley.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=2

[Guest lazyphil]

The Volvo and BMW new wave of SUV's are handsome motors. i was recently in the united states and was suprised just how small cars americans are now driving compared to my first time in the country in 92. many many compact japanese cars, whlst here the SUV is becoming king!

[rogueyam]

Ok, there were loads of patriots in Berzerkeley today, and of course plenty of lefties too. The patriots gathered in the park across from City Hall and played music, sang songs, shared food and cameraderie and denounced the Berkeley City Council actions. The lefties gathered on the lawn of City Hall and I paid no attention to them. Some lefties came over to harrass us but they were pretty boring. I helped prevent a few of them from stealing the donation box put out by the rally organizers. And there were some incidents of fairly minor assault by various especially deranged pinkos. The best moment for me was when a young hippie woman on a bicycle rode in front of the patriots tauntingly waving a small American flag she had set on fire. This guy standing right next to me (of a type familiar to any American; a sixty-something year old Vietnam-era veteran biker dude, at once portly but still cut, wearing a black leather vest covered in service patches, etc.) sees the burning flag and instantly darts out into the street, takes the woman down to the ground off of the bike, and snatches the flag away from her. As he stood up a half dozen or so young hippies came running up to him. He stood there looking right at them as he calmly rolled up the flag, extinguishing it, and then he turned and walked slowly back over to rejoin us in the park. The hippies waited until he was well away from them before they started shouting threats at him but he didn't even bother looking back. All the other gnarly veteran biker dudes (there were a couple dozen or so) then gathered around him and offered congratulations. It was a thing of beauty!

[Flashermac]

Power to the people!

 

 

[rogueyam]

Here is a photo slideshow from today:

 

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=11ps0hjd.7s9ouh1d&Uy=5nmez8&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0

[chuckwoww]

First time I went to the States people were still driving huge cars with tail-fins and V8 engines that got about 6 miles to the gallon. Beautiful things you only see at car clubs now. I thought they were great. I had a Grand Prix Monaco. Gas was really cheap too. I'm not sure what the average gas mileage is for SUVs but engines have got more efficient. I still can't see people choosing smaller cars unless they absolutely have to.