Berkeley Backs Off On Banning Marines

[Old Hippie]

Just to throw a little gas on the fire here..."stealing" as in going to war over resources is nothing new, it will happen again.

 

Now, my question is, would you feel better if China and or Russia went in and set up shop instead of the USA? Does it make a difference who pimps your oil to you? And NO little idealistic answers like "...I'd prefer it all be free and we all get along..." crap, I want an honest answer here, who do you trust more, or who do you want to have pulling your strings where oil is concerned, the USA, Russia and or China?

 

Additionally, I'll add, is China etc basically letting the USA do the bidding here, allowing our economy to collapse in the process, and they will then step in and gain an economic upper hand and then dominate us economically? discuss...

[chuckwoww]

exactly CW, and had you worked in nigeria (perhaps you did) and not iraq for 4 years and developed an afinity with nigerians you would possibly be raising the issue of oil theft from that country more often than you do. i see absolutely no difference in the two only that it seems nigerians are more docile to react to foreign occupation. i dont think it was the US gov intention to get bogged down in the mess that currently are in, they obviously expected them to roll over and give up. more power to the iraqis for saying fuck off!!

 

 

I was in Nigeria briefly phil. Hated it. But I still don't see the colonization of West Africa as the same as a blatant invasion of a sovereign state. Sure it's about oil but there are no foreign troops in Nigeria.

 

Yes the invasion of Iraq was supposed to be a cakewalk. A few people did warn about the dangers of sectarian fighting but nobody listened.

 

[chuckwoww]

Just to throw a little gas on the fire here..."stealing" as in going to war over resources is nothing new, it will happen again. Now, my question is, would you feel better if China and or Russia went in and set up shop instead of the USA? Does it make a difference who pimps your oil to you? And NO little idealistic answers like "...I'd prefer it all be free and we all get along..." crap, I want an honest answer here, who do you trust more, or who do you want to have pulling your strings where oil is concerned, the USA, Russia and or China?

 

 

I think that's kind of similar to the point phil has been making. Yes I do think there should be international norms of behaviour, sovereignty should be respected and nations should be able to choose what they do with their own resources.

 

As for the Iraqis I think they probably would be happy to deal with US oil companies on an equitable basis. Not at the point of a gun.

 

I'm not sure the Chinese want the US economy to collapse. How would that benefit them?

[Old Hippie]

Didn't quite answer the question

 

As for a resource like oil, should the rest of the world really let themselves be held at the mercy of the oil barrons? as in the oil producing nations? or should the world set some sort of criteria where in they will fork over this valuable resource at a resonable profit etc...? Discuss...

 

Myself, I say it is more less our own faults, because we allow greedy bastards dictate our energy policy, and thus prevent us from delvopeing safe nuclear power and other alternatives that would make us less dependent on the oil these mid east countries controll. Discuss...

[chuckwoww]

Which question? If you didn't ramble on so bloody much and stop editing your posts before I reply you might get a definitive answer.

 

Now you throw out a few more questions. I think ideally resource countries should be allowed to control their own affairs but the way multi-national companies work it's getting hard to distinguish who owns what.

 

Maybe I'm just naive to think that empirical land grabs are a thing of the past but if people are going to invade each other at least they could be honest about it.

 

Next question. No rush....I will be away from the computer for a few hours.

[Flashermac]

What is the meaning of life?

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Life is....dunno. But I think I see the misunderstanding with Corinthian. It comes down to a definition of theft. He thinks because he is paying someone $10 a gallon for gas the oil hasn't been stolen. If a big landowner takes over a small neighbour's farm without asking that's theft. Maybe he let's the guy go on living there, maybe he even pays him a wage, maybe there's another legal word for it (any lawyers reading this crap?) but to me it's theft. Who owns Iraq now? I'd say the occupying force owns it. Not legally but if they refuse to leave they effectively own it. Taking over Iraq wasn't very clever. The oil was supposed to be cheap but the costs actually went up. So in a way we're all paying for the theft.

[Khun_Kong]

You know, I used to ask them about that- the locals that is. It was amazing the comments I received but no one ever actually accused us of that. Though a lot thought the oil was in the long term plan. Most were more worried about the Kurds and the Iranians getting the oil than us doing it.

 

Don't forgot- this war will end up costing Americans ZERO dollars, because Iraqui oil will be used to pay us back, mostly as a thank you for helping the Iraqui people. I know it's a bit difficult for them to express their true feelings at the moment, but I have no doubt that they will show their gratitude as soon as the oil starts flowing. Some of you would say I'm full of shit, but you would be the same unpatriotic, troop-hating people who claim GWB, Cheney, Rummy et al lied to or mislead us.

 

And those of you traitors who say we should bring these Marines and other boys back home- have you no respect at all for the job they're doing? How do you think they'd feel if they knew you wanted them to be back with their families? You make me sick.

 

[shygye]

Do you know how much petrol costs in the USA? Do you know how much petrol costs in Iraq? Now' date=' who is plundering whom?[/quote']

 

In the US about $3 a gallon. You'll have to tell me the current price in Iraqi. I guess you also need to factor in transportation and refinery costs and the additional costs because of all the security forces involved. Before the invasion crude was selling for around $20 a barrel. Now it's over $90 a barrel. The invasion was supposed to pay for itself...it would all be over in a few weeks...the Iraqis would throw flowers at the liberators...the insurgency is in its last throes...the surge is working...

 

The US buys refined oil products and gives it to Iraq. The US subsidizes cheap petrol prices in Iraq.

[shygye]

Life is....dunno. But I think I see the misunderstanding with Corinthian. It comes down to a definition of theft. He thinks because he is paying someone $10 a gallon for gas the oil hasn't been stolen. If a big landowner takes over a small neighbour's farm without asking that's theft. Maybe he let's the guy go on living there, maybe he even pays him a wage, maybe there's another legal word for it (any lawyers reading this crap?) but to me it's theft. Who owns Iraq now? I'd say the occupying force owns it. Not legally but if they refuse to leave they effectively own it. Taking over Iraq wasn't very clever. The oil was supposed to be cheap but the costs actually went up. So in a way we're all paying for the theft.

 

It is not theft, because the oil is sold on the open market and that money flows into the Iraqi government plus additional US funding to keep it afloat.