Hugh_Hoy Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 ... The Law of the Jungle has nothing to do with either Conservatism or Libertarianism. Both rely on government for national defense, criminal and civil law enforcement, and naturally monopolistic infrastructure (e.g. most roads, most utilities, etc.) among other things. 4. Ditto on the speciousness of the "provide for your fellow man" sermon. There is a huge difference between charity and entitlement, between opportunity and support. I have seen in my own lifetime the social and psychological degradation that inevitably results from and comes to define the welfare state; in the Ninth Ward of New Orleans, in Detroit, and in West Oakland too. People getting less capable, less confident, more demanding, and more violent generation after generation. And all the while arrogant, sanctimonious lefties saying that the worsening problems are due to the greedy rich being too selfish to provide even more of the same poison that brought those folks so low to begin with. Feh. The only thing that really works is the only thing that has ever really worked: liberty. Private property and private enterprise, free markets, pluralism and individuality, strong families, education, hard work, and Judeo-Christian morality. That "it takes a village" crap won't work any better in the US than it does (supposedly) in Africa.... Pure prose...and an excellent assessment. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 SD: First, I am not American so I am not involved in any political debate about the future of the USA. I must say that I am currently paying 45% taxes.... Part of these taxes are for the social security system here in Spain: This is wrong: What social security system here covers: - Unemployment: I do not plan to be unemployed here in Spain (and do not think I will ever be unemployed) but if one day I become unemployed then I would certainly not stay jobless here but better move back to my own country. (knowing the being unemployed there would entitle me to "earn" far more than the average Spanish salary). So why would I pay for this? - Sick leave: It has been more than 10 years since I paid a visit to a doctor in Europe. Anyway if I happen to have a serious medical problem then my private medical insurance will tak care of that. So why would I pay for that? (plus quite a few other things included in the social security system) I worked my ass off to study and at work. (I made some mistakes involving money but I learned from my mistakes and never begged anyone to help me) I do not see why I would have to pay for people who do not try their best. We are in western societies so finding work is always possible. About taxes: - I agree that I have to pay taxes to insure that the country will run fine, I am using the metro, the roads and other public services so I have no problem paying for that. But, why do I have to pay so much more than 95% of the population just because my salary is a bit higher? (and I am talking about honest people who worked to get their salaries) I find this unfair to pay far more than the average people. (especially since I am not a national of a country so I did not benefit from the advantages of the system while younger but this is another matter) just so you know, people earning less than 22K euros/gross per year pay minimal to inexistant taxes and other people usually pay up to 17-18% taxes. Why the hell do I pay 45%???? Of course paying taxes is good for the general welfare of the country but why paying so much taxes?? (I am in fact paying as much taxes as someone making 20 times what I make per month) By the way, paying high taxes does not stop the local African gang to have fun (luckily not with me) Note: SD I am not attacking you personally just wondering why some of your opinions are so liberal in your case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Maybe because sometimes, just sometimes, those that earn a lot realise that those that don't need a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Nope, giving a hand is one thing, giving too much of your hard-earned income to people who refuse to work is another matter. Social security system is meant to help support people in dire situations not to provide a regular income to people who prefer to do nothing. A short story: My sister finished her engineering studies a few months ago. She was jobless during 2 months thus had to rely on the social security system while searching for her first job. The number of people she met who are comfortable living with the social welfare system (sometimes for many years) without trying to find a job/take a formation etc... is astonishing. Of course social security is something positive but there are far too many people who profit from it...... Do not misunderstand me, I fully support people in needs but I am not ready to pay for people prefering to do nothing and who profit from the system. If one day I am making 30K euros/month then I don not care paying 45% taxes but I do not like the fact that overpaying taxes just because you work like mad is viewed as something normal...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 In the U.S. there are 3rd generation welfare families. They fuck off in school, if they even go; get "free" food, reduced utility fees, housing, etc., etc., etc. Welfare, which was supposed to be a "safety net", has become a hammock for these oxygen thieves. Old joke: "How do you make a welfare recipient go crazy? Answer: hide their welfare check under their work boots". HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I thought there was a time limit on welfare payments now ... Some of the payments were ridiculous though. You could make considerably more money doing nothing that by going to work. Something is wrong there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Once again arises the truly bizarre spectacle of the righties who are seemingly extremely jealous of the folks who have nothing. I really do not get that at all. Please explain it to me. Regards, SD -- Eisenhower conservative PS -- if you claim to be a "Reagan conservative", then you are no conservative at all. Clinton was more truly conservative than Ray-gun (who, of course, was our second worst prez ever)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Probably something similar to the Thai middleclass not wanting the evil isaan folk getting government support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Once again arises the truly bizarre spectacle of the righties who are seemingly extremely jealous of the folks who have nothing. I really do not get that at all. Please explain it to me. Regards, SD -- Eisenhower conservative PS -- if you claim to be a "Reagan conservative", then you are no conservative at all. Clinton was more truly conservative than Ray-gun (who, of course, was our second worst prez ever)! SD, first of all,this is NOT about "righties" being jealous of those who have nothing at all. That is a typical "lefty" misstatement of the truth and I think you know that. Might play well with other leftist, "progressive", socialist, commie types, but it is NOT true. It is NOT about being jealous about people who have nothing at all. It is about handing out other people's food and clothing and money to people who DO nothing at all...except, maybe, steal oxygen. Some of those people might not have anything other than a $200 NFL team jacket or $200 pair of AirJordan's. Poor folks, they are. Milking the system for everything they can get while giving fuck-all about accountability, responsibility or doing the slightest legal thing to improve their own situation. So the people who finished through high school and college, sometimes mounting high debt while taking out student loans...so they could get a decent education...now are told by the leftist, socialist, progressive, commies (take your pick) that they are "jealous" of those who have nothing. Come on, SD. Give me a freakin' break. Further, if you truely tell people you are Canadian to avoid some kind of embarassment is quite disturbing to me. Smacks of treason in a way. ("Disturbing". Isn't that one of the current "lefty" terms in vogue now. Is that a replacement for "mean-spirited". 5555555) If telling somebody you are Canadian because you are afraid of what somebody might fucking think makes me pause to wonder how you survived on those "mean streets" of Deeeeeetroit. God Bless America HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 <> yeah Eminem, about that? :smirk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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