The Anti-American Issue

[Hugh_Hoy]

Well, you could've put it in the Discussion group...or if a book review, in the "Culture" group.

 

I guess it gets exasperating to lefties when they get challenged as to facts, motives, etc. Relax. This is just a sandbox. But if you think you are gonna attack another's sandcastle with impunity...

 

In any event, I think I just asked a couple of questions, no? Anybody can answer them. If you want to exclude somebody from a discussion, put them on "ignore" or start a private topic. Easy. Lots of us do it.

 

HH

[Faustian]

I think Fidel wanted a discussion...

 

Fidel wrote;

 

.... discuss... oh and try to keep it clean!

 

As Rogue and yourself have both made reference to 'lefties', in other words anyone who, heaven forbid, doesn't agree with you, then the discussion is over. Resorting to name calling/labelling in some pathetic attempt to destroy creditability, means that there is no discussion possible.

 

For the record, I only partially agree with Fidels posted quotation. I think there's a far bigger picture.

[Old Hippie]

Fidel,

 

Despite what others may say, or see, I have never once considered you "Anti-American." Hard to believe to some I suppose, but look at it this way, America, the USA has more less dominated the world since the end of WWII. Thus, it stands to reason that we would become the focal point of world attention, much the way UK was years back (which is why I find it hard to accept criticizing from the UK, as we are both guilty of the same bullshit...you learned, we haven't...oh right, point taken).

 

Fidel (not an American), is perhaps like many Americans here and elsewhere, we do feel it/see it, that is "we love our country, we hate our government," and what we have or could become. A worn out cliche perhaps, but true non the less. I think it was Jefferson who said "...a patriot is not someone who blindly loves his country, but rather one who occasionally has a lover's quarrel with it..." That would be me, and many others here, Fidel as well maybe? Just because one criticizes something, or demands more/something better from something, does not make them anti that which they hold to a high standard, perhaps in admiration for what it once was? My apologies if I am speaking out of turn.

 

 

 

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Khun Faustian...I mostly agree with what you say. However, the term "lefty" was not used until after Fidel decided he wanted to take his ball and go home. Further, if you look at the subject heading, the passage selected by the OP doesn't quite connect. Add to that Fidel's well-documented obsession with all the evil capitalism and the US forces onto the planet, and it is really difficult to believe he was truely interested in a discussion...more as another vehicle to propagate his delusions.

 

In any event, if Fidel leaves this discussion, I will certainly do the same and let the other good folks here carry on without my two "U.S. Sense". 55555555

 

HH

[Fidel]

You're right OH.

 

There's much I admire about the US. Most of the music I listen to is by US artists.

 

America has a lot of heroes.

[Old Hippie]

If we go back to the original post' date=' Levine suggests that it is the colonization of the world through mass consumption, one person at a time, the drive to force everyone to be alike, the use of sanctions, military power, grant aid and loans to quite literally dismantle cultures across the world and remould them in the image of the US that is troubling everyone.[/quote']

 

"Levine"? Why go back to him? What makes him an authority merely because he wrote a book? "There's a book in everybody". He is one person with an opinion. Sounds a bit like taking a paragraph out of a book by Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter or another Levine and drawing the conclusion that what they say is true and factual.

 

HH

 

 

Presumably, someone who has written a book, has taken the time to research it, interview people, and hopefully has an idea of what he is talking about. I would not necessarily define such as an "expert" right off, but he should hopefully know more than the average person. Generally speaking anyway.

[Fidel]

Obviously, OH, despite the fact that anti-American sentiment is on the rise the world over, something which nobody who remains in touch with reality can deny, to discuss this important sociological and psychological phenomenon is in itself anti-American.

 

Does anyone else find this worryingly Orwellian?

 

 

[rogueyam]

As Rogue and yourself have both made reference to 'lefties', in other words anyone who, heaven forbid, doesn't agree with you, then the discussion is over. Resorting to name calling/labelling in some pathetic attempt to destroy creditability, means that there is no discussion possible.

 

Some people embrace socialism and/or its cultural offshoots. These people are leftists. There is nothing illegitimate about identifying certain thoughts or arguments as socialistic. What is illegitimate is pursuing an agenda while denying that one is doing so. It is also illegitimate to attempt to silence those who accurately characterize ideas that you want obfuscated.

[Fidel]

Some people embrace socialism and/or its cultural offshoots. These people are leftists. There is nothing illegitimate about identifying certain thoughts or arguments as socialistic. What is illegitimate is pursuing an agenda while denying that one is doing so. It is also illegitimate to attempt to silence those who accurately characterize ideas that you want obfuscated.

 

Let me translate Senator McCarthy's, oops, I mean Rogue's comment.

 

If we label someone a commie/lefty or whatever, his argument is automatically invalid. He is not allowed to contest this labeling.

 

[Old Hippie]

Obviously, OH, despite the fact that anti-American sentiment is on the rise the world over, something which nobody who remains in touch with reality can deny, to discuss this important sociological and psychological phenomenon is in itself anti-American.

 

Does anyone else find this worryingly Orwellian?

 

 

 

I, as an American who likes to travel, find the growing trend disturbing. Even more disturbing is that most Americans give a rat's ass about it, and can only dismiss it with a lame assed reply of "...they are all just jealous of us..." for what? out sourcing jobs? invading countries on a lie? allowing fraudulent elections to go forth? Allowing our economy to sink into the toilet while we play with ourselves? Any "real American" should be upset about this, not burying his head in the sand.