samak Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 And I do know three Farangs who have lived here for years but "work outside of Thailand" who got caught in the last six months. One lost his condo (he lives in my building) and the other left (more like fled) Thailand and cannot return. could you give more details? they were "caught" doing what? on what visa were they here? were they caught because of work permit violation or tax violation? how did tax department find out? were they denounced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 To give you details, I need to sanitize this a bit and be somewhat general. In all three cases, it officially started with the Revenue Department. Work permit charges were suggested, but the current penalty for a work permit violation is a relatively small fine and three month's jail. Under the new work permit act, the penalty goes up to five years in prison. That is quite a change. In at least one case, an influential local Thai had an interest in creating a problem for the Farang, and our theory is that this how he was caught. We don't know why the authorities checked his passport and searched his apartment, but they did. In one other case, we think it was an ex girl friend, but again, how do you really know? I do know this guy had a "GTG" but also enjoyed what Bangkok had to offer and was paranoid about this GTG finding out. He also had a major fight with GTG about three days before the raid. I don't know what caused problems for the third. In all three matters they searched the Farang's condo or apartment. Raids are easy and common in Thailand. And all three of them had home offices and documents evidencing that work had been performed in Thailand, which is not surprising. Pause and think about it, if you are working from your apartment or condo, you will have documents (either in soft or hard form) reflecting work you performed. No one is going to routinely shread every document and destroy every file relating to work. And if you did start doing this, it would interfere with your work. In the Condo case, plainclothes officers (I don't what authority) came in with a digital camera (Nikon 70D) and took photos of his home office. This just an impression: these guys didn't act like police; they acted like, well, IRS agents or accountants - methodical and not very macho. In other words, effective. My take on all of this is this: it is like everything else in Thailand - if you are violating the rules (which are often unreasonably broad and impossible to avoid violating) you are vulnerable, and when you are vulnerable and someone has an interest in creating a problem for you, problems just happen to occur. I have seen this happen before in other contexts - same pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 But won't the Thais copy them as soon as these foreigners have taken the risk and be seen to be successful? And thus erode their advantage? This is a problem. I can give a very good example: a guy from one of the low countries set up a bicycle tour company in northern Thailand. I am getting old, bicycling is not hard on the knees, and several of other Farangs of the same age would annually book bicycling tours through his company. It was a great change from Bangkok and really not all that expensive. We would go through interesting parts of Thailand and experience it in a way you just don't experience the countryside from a car. Last year, his chief Thai tour guide sent us an email in fractured English offering similiar bicycle tours. He somehow acquired (stole?) the customer list of his former employer. The prices were lower. I didn't go on the tour, but a friend did, and said the service was crap because the new Thai company tried to cut corners on everything - bikes, accomodations, meals, etc., and nothing happened on time. I don't know how the original company is faring since I don't go on bicycle tours until the latter part of the year (when it isn't so damn hot). Some people will pay a premium for better service (and we are not talking much here - not much more than what you would spend on a night Soi Cowboy), and some will not - even when it comes to something as simple as a bicycle tour. But when it comes to professional services, where the stakes are higher and honesty and integrity are essential, that premium becomes even more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldFun Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 great insights offered by the usual contributers - thanks as for 'others' not listed I'd say apart from telecom already mentioned consulting biz owner (director) might be a biggie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Bugger - with all this talk, I just got told my end of year personal tax and I owe 42 000 baht, ergh, someone has been mis calculating. Good side is my wife gets $ back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldFun Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 cheers cto - looking fw to a free round at down under on fri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samak Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 thanks Gadfly for those details look like all were denounced! not sure whether those examples are representative as there are still thousands and thousands flying under the radar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 That was a few weeks back, before I had to pay the tax man Got any salty nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dddave Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Regarding how people get caught; we should all learn from the background details of the recent fall of New York's Gov. Spitzer. His case illustrates the ease with which banks and "interested" officials can pull up and track an individuals financial paper trail; or, more accurately, digital trail. A couple of keystrokes and your entire life is laid out before them. Hard to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Not exactly correct. If you are resident here more than 183 days in any year, you are a tax resident, and obliged to pay income tax. Fair enough. But my example was offshore oil guys. They are not in-country 183 days a year. Likely no more than 100 days. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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